The Science of Twilight

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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:08 am

Hi debussygirl!
OK, this is probably the area of greatest literary license outside of the whole vampire thing. Mammalian blood is different enough between the species that it cannot be used for inter-species transfusions (in other words, you can't use pig blood for humans or dog blood for bats.) So,it is different from human blood. However, the color is the same. If the eyes of a newborn are red because of their residual blood, then the color would be the same for animal blood since it is also red.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no reason for the eyes to be red at all, actually. None of the rest of the body is altered that much except for the crystals embedded in the skin. If the physiology is simply changed at the molecular level but all parts of a body remain in their original form, the eyes of a vampire should simply be their original color. I will try to look at the personal correspondences to see what SM said about this. There isn't a scientific reason that I know of for the eyes to act as fuel gauges at all. Anybody else?

I would pm Pharm who is on some of the earlier pages.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby iemand » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:45 pm

My guess, vampires are like an albinos, their eyes are red through the blood behind them when full and black when empty because there isn't any blood in the vampires body to give it a red color. The yellow eyes could be caused by a specific interaction between someting in the vampires body and the animal blood. But thats improbable in my opinion (the color should be different for each animal then). Most likely it's one of the 'vampire magic' things :) .

What I'm wondering however is why the original blood takes so long to leave the body, consumed blood seems to be totally gone after 2 weeks.
And wouldn't a newborn vampire be constantly full for a year as opposed to thirsty (mental effects aside) because of their own blood?
third, shouldn't the eyecolor change to yellowish after only a few times of feeding, because a human has like 5 litres of blood (right?) and drinking a couple of elks and other animals should bring it to like 3/4 yellow in a single day...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby debussygirl » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:05 pm

Yeah, the whole thing that human blood is completely different baffles me still, because a mountain lion is just as different to a deer and a human. But anyway. :/

I think that Bella's eyes did dull as she got older (vampire age). But also, consumed blood goes to the stomach. Newborn blood would be in their veins. Vampires hearts aren't pumping, so maybe the fact that it's in their veins rather than their stomach is why it takes so much longer to consume.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:20 pm

That is what SM said in the personal correspondences. The newborns are still using up all the blood in their system, so regardless of what else they eat, their eyes stay red for about 3 months. And your comment about where the blood is stored is right, according to her. The veins still have blood for a while and then venom completely replaces the blood, and the venom is clear. After the blood is used up, the only way it enters the system is by being absorbed through the stomach. There is quite a conversation about vampire digestion on previous pages.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:54 pm

This might be better suited for a different section, but I couldn't think of a better place to ask this question. It's a question that deals with science and even more importantly, canon as it relates to the story and the science behind it.

You see, I was thinking of writing a fan fiction that takes place after Renesmee matures and is an adult. In it, I'm thinking of adding a plot twist where after a short period of time passess after Nessie matures that Bella starts to exhibit strange phisical symptoms, almost like a parital reversal of her vampirism. And that is basically what it is-she becomes a female venom producing hybrid, making her one of the few(a couple of female hybrids that I've created for other stories are also venom producers, but that's a different discussion).

I was thinking that because Bella was unique in that she's the only known woman to survive a hybrid birth, I was wondering if it could be possible(let alone logical) if she could become a hybrid because of her being Nessie's mother. Just a thought, though not likely at all if the science and related canon of Twilight is to be adhered to(where vampirism is essentially permanent and isn't known to be reversible). But I though that it would make an interesting story twist for the story that I'm developing, and could provide some humor and might also make Edward feel a little less guilty(like he actually does!) that Bella isn't a normal human anymore, and she gets some of her human qualities back(the ones that hybrids have).

And as to the separate discussion, could it be possible that female hybrids could or can't produce venom as a gender trait? Renesmee and Nauel's sisters aren't know to produce venom(Renesmee definently can't), but I kinda feel that what guys can do girls can do to under the right circumstances. So is it that Hybrids don't produce venom if they're female, or is it just rare?

You thoughts please,
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:40 pm

Just my opinions on the situations you presented.

First, having Bella change back simply because she bore a hybrid daughter doesn't really make much sense. She was transformed immediately after the "birth" and thus locked in her state- we don't know of any method that can change a vampire post-transformation to such a degree.

As for the hybrids, it's been generally accepted that, given the evidence we have, all female hybrids are unable to produce venom. It could as you say be due to their simply being female; many sex-specific characteristics occur in nature, so it's not that far a stretch in my mind.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:59 pm

I have to agree with Rings.
While you could try to make a reverse change sound feasable in a fanfiction, and you might be able to pull it off well, there simply isn't any way for that to occur that is easily explained. First off, why would hybrid DNA supercede vampire venom? Secondly, what about Nessie's birth would have left any trace of human DNA in Bella? I realize that she did become more of a vampire while carrying Nessie, but I believe that any hybrid DNA that mixed with hers would have been destroyed in the process of the change. However, as I said, you might be able to make it sound feasable enough to create a good story around it, but it will be hard.

As to Nessie becoming venomous, you have more freedom. Certainly, she isn't in the book, but she could develop the trait later on. However, that would really suck for Jake.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:56 am

I was actually refering to other female hybrids, not Renesmee-I assume that she might never produce venom on her own, though when she matures she can produce venom possibly, but that's not known nor has been satisfactorily explained, like many traits of Nessie or other hybrids.

As for Bella becoming a hybrid for some reason after Nessie matures, I know that it's not likely because as far is known in the canon of the story, and the science is part of that canon, that there's really no known ways for full vampirism to be reversed, at least one that's natural in nature, but Bella is unique in that she's the only person to survive a vampire-hybrid birth, and I thought that some mechanism to turn her into a hybrid when Nessie's older.

Besides, Bella and Edward influenced Renesmee and her gifts, so why can't she, in a way, give something back to the one she loves most(her mother)? And Edward would probably like it if Bella was a hybrid, because she'd be half human, and some of her human traits(like eye color, and her skin having some color and being able to blend in with people) could come back, but her clumsiness wouldn't and she'd keep most if not all her vampire ablities.

That, and I think that the hybrids are cool, and I think that Bella would like to feel what it would be like to be like her daughter in that respect.

Canon wise, I doubt that Bella becoming a hybrid will work because they're might not be a satisfactory explanation, but in the world of fan fiction, as there, at least for the foreseeable future, is no plans for more new Twilight Saga material from Stephenie aside from maybe explaining some characters though short stories(like Bree), it can be possible, because the future from that stand point is wide open.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:00 am

The part about the female hybrids not producing venom is known- inasmuch as Nahuel tells us about his sisters, and he has been around for what, a hundred years thereabouts? If any of his sisters developed the ability to produce venom, I highly doubt that Nahuel would not have found out.

As for Renesmee "giving back" to Bella- sorry, I just don't see it. I would also think that Edward would probably go nuts if this happened- his invulnerable wife suddenly reverting and regaining some semblance of her human self would likely cause him to second-guess his actions, force him to be overly gentle again, et cetera. (Related note: his venom. Recall that they considered permanently stopping Renesmee's accelerated growth, but they weren't sure if the venom would actually be harmful to her the way it is with the shapeshifters. Imagine Edward being concerned- once again- about having to keep his venom away from Bella.)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:28 pm

I though that hybrids are believed to be about as immortal as vampires, though no one's tested that out on Nessie. She had impenetrable skin, and I don't believe that if she were to become a hybrid that Bella would be clumsy or frail. I believe that hybrids have most(if not all) the advantages of vampires with out the few compensating disadvantages(sparkly skin/venom and the problems with sunlight, and aren't cold like vampires).

The only thing that hybrid have to worry about is their(relative to humans) abnormally high temperature and keeping their speed/agility and speical or enhanced abilities in check when around humans unless the Volturi allow the exhistance of vampires to become public(also out of established canon, but that's another issue).

I guess that I may be a little fixated on Bella's uniqueness and how maternal she is with Renesmee. And I kinda think that its only fair, considering what she went though, for Bella to also expeirence the best of both worlds-human and vampire. And besides, if anyone reading this is Team Jacob, Bella and Jake can hang out more, since she'll only smell as good/bad to Jacob as Nessie does.

I didn't really expect anyone to go for this, because it's out of canon and doesn't fit the science of that canon. But we can all dream and since it seems that nothing new from the saga will expand the story beyond Breakind Dawn, we kinda have to make up our own fantasy stories, which is what I was refering to and if it could be possible in such an alternative universe/forward looking fan fic.
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