The Science of Twilight

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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:30 pm

As a fanfiction, anything goes. The only major issue is that it needs to be believable enough to make the story work. Your idea that Bella could become a hybrid is as realistic as the whole hybrid issue (crystal doesn't usually have DNA and that DNA can't be broken up to look at). However, Rings brings out an important LITERARY point: having Bella become a hybrid makes her even more in danger of Edward. His venom won't change her, it will kill her. That seems almost cruel. However, it is your story, so you should try it out and see what happens. You will need to work hard to make it believable and make it so that Edward doesn't need to go into therapy because he thinks he will kill his wife again.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:17 pm

That's another thing-no one knows if hybrids are immune to the venom, how it may effect them, or if its a form of poison. Nauel produces venom, so it's not like it's poison, at least to him. However, it's not known if females have similar immunity to venom, or if hybrids at all are immune to foreign venom being injected into them to begin with. No one's ever tried it, and I doubt that Bella and Edward would try that on Renesmee, or anyone else, and they might not want to know, period.

That's the only thing I sort of can't stand about how BD ended-so many questions are left unanswered. I know that Stephenie probably did that intentionally to keep the story open-ended enough so that if she wanted to write more she could, and maybe to encourage creative thinking among fan fic writers.

We know a lot about hybrids, but there are also a lot of blanks that ought to be filled in, and that to an extent applies to vampires and shape-shifters.

How do hybrids react to venom? We don't know. Is the venom as lethal to the La Push Shape-shifters as it is to full-fledged werewolves? We don't know 100%, but the signs seem to point towards it being equally lethal to both. Can vampires revert to being human or become human-vampire hybrids? We don't know, but in accepted canon, unlikely. And are there ways for humans to be made into hybrids? Again, that's unknown.

In fan fiction, we can ignore or modify canon if there's a solid basis to do so that can be explained. The Twilight Saga deals with things that don't exhist in real life, anyways. So, with the novels being based on myth and fantasy, realism and relevance to real life is out of the question to begin with.

I'm just wondering if there's a plausable way that vampirism can wear off to a degree, and in my theory on this, since Bella was a vampire, she'll produce venom and will likely be immune to it, and in my stories, Nessie is immune to the venom because she's half vampire. This is all open to intreptation and what one wants to do with their story. I feel that there's no right or wrong answer here as long as there's a logical explanation that's at least somewhat understandable.

Besides, it's a story. A romance story, to be specific. I like that having some of the questions unanswered encourages debate and creative thinking which I and Stephenie Meyer herself would probably commend us for. But I wouldn't swear the science too much, as there's not a whole lot of things that are 100% rock soild and there are exeptions to every rule, with Bella being one for surving Nessie's birth, albeit with help from Edward.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:43 pm

Since this is more of a story question, why don't you go post some of your ideas on the Writer's Central thread? We could discuss this there and get literary help as well as good plot tips.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby r_godsey » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:17 pm

I've kind of been stumped with Bella's hallucinations in New Moon.
So what are the facts?

We know they are:
Edward specific
Only pop up when she's under severe stress or mortal danger
They are new to Bella
They stop after she rescues Edward
They are auditory and not visual
Edward is suprised when Bella tells she had them


I just really have this feeling in my gut like these are explained somewhere in the script and I'm just not seeing it.
Has someone who's read/studied the books more than me, caught anything?

We know that Bella is gifted with shield powers, and that in BD she actually stregthens these.*

I'm kind of comtemplating the fact that Bella was bitten by James, but not changed. And her scar is cool to the touch, like a vampire's skin. That this may have something to do with it. We don't know of anyone living that had been bitten but not changed or what effects could have on a human. Since it was Carlisle's idea to suck out the venom, we can assume that this "procedure" had been attempted before.

Also I'm thinking about Edward's whereabouts and the possiblity that his powers enhanced during this time of separation, in New Moon.
We don't know for a fact that Edward was in Rio. I really don't think he was such a terrible tracker, he thought Victoria was in South America when she was skittering around Washington.
And these auditory hallucinations are basically a reversal of Edwards pre-existing ability: the ability to hear thoughts, up to a distance of 3 miles. The "hallucinations" are so true to what would be Edward's real thoughts, that it's hard to believe these are all just inventions of Bella's subconscious to deal with stress.

Is it too far fetched to think that Edward could have projected his thoughts to Bella?
Which, if you've read Midnight Sun, you know how often Edward actually stalks her, and how difficult it is for him to be away from her.
When at this time, after promising Bella that she'd never see him again, could he really leave her?
We know that Bella never sees Edward. But according to Midnight Sun, Edward was around alot and Bella didn't know it.
Could he have possibly, been so desparate to protect her that his powers adapted to allow this?

He could not let her see him, but he could not let her die in the meadow.
Alice never saw the Laurent confrontation, the wolves blocked her vision.
And yet there was the Edward hallucination, to walk Bella thru it.

The monkey wrench in all of this is that Edward called Bella's house to check on her after Rosalie told him that Bella had jumped off cliff. If Bella's hallucinations were actually Edward's ability projecting his thoughts to her, he would have seen that Bella was ok, and would have had no reason to committ suicide.

There's gotta be a way this all fits together. Is it really just as simple as, *Bella couldn't deal so Bella's brain fixed it so she could???
Is this a case of conspiracy theory; if you look for a conspiracy long enough, one will pop up?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Openhome » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:17 am

r_godsey wrote:I've kind of been stumped with Bella's hallucinations in New Moon.
So what are the facts?

I just really have this feeling in my gut like these are explained somewhere in the script and I'm just not seeing it.
Has someone who's read/studied the books more than me, caught anything?

I'm kind of comtemplating the fact that Bella was bitten by James, but not changed. And her scar is cool to the touch, like a vampire's skin. That this may have something to do with it. We don't know of anyone living that had been bitten but not changed or what effects could have on a human.

Also I'm thinking about Edward's whereabouts and the possiblity that his powers enhanced during this time of separation, in New Moon.
We don't know for a fact that Edward was in Rio.

Is it too far fetched to think that Edward could have projected his thoughts to Bella?

Could he have possibly, been so desparate to protect her that his powers adapted to allow this?


The monkey wrench in all of this is that Edward called Bella's house to check on her after Rosalie told him that Bella had jumped off cliff. If Bella's hallucinations were actually Edward's ability projecting his thoughts to her, he would have seen that Bella was ok, and would have had no reason to committ suicide.

There's gotta be a way this all fits together. Is it really just as simple as, *Bella couldn't deal so Bella's brain fixed it so she could???
?


I suggest you also ask this on the Twilight Q and A thread.

Actually, these have been explained by SM, I think in her personal correspondences, but I'm not sure. I suggest you go to those first. I believe she said that it was Bella's own little insane way of dealing with Edward leaving. Could it be some kind of connection? Sure! (it would make a great fanfiction :D ) However, Bella did indeed go a little over the edge when he left, and SM wanted it that way. It is the visions, created by Bella's mind, that clue us into the fact that she really has no choice between Jacob and Edward. Without Edward, she really is broken.

Could she have a stronger shield? Maybe. It's a very interesting thought. However, venom is such that even a little left in the system will change someone (see past pages) so not enough of it spread to allow for much change within her. Edward got it out pretty quickly. If much had gone in, I think Bella would have realized it because she would have been physically different.

Yes we do, he was in Rio like he said. He tracked Victoria until he lost her, joined the family in Ithaca (see Ithaca is Gorges by Giselle LX on fanfiction.net for a brilliant and clean story of this time!), and then left for Rio because he couldn't stay with the family. He was just too close to going back, so he left.

Again, sorry, he was gone. He left and refused to come back or even allow a family member to check on Bella.

Yep, he would have felt her if that was the case. The movie showed it correctly. Edward thought he was so dangerous to Bella that he completely left. She went a little nuts. Period. It's okay to go a little nuts when your life is torn apart. She really couldn't live without Edward, and the whole love triangle thing drives me crazy here. She was damaged beyond repair when Edward left. That's the way it is. I know several widows who think they hear their husband's voices sometimes. It really isn't so unusual. Grief is a horrible thing to feel, and Bella couldn't be completely sane without Edward. Period.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:34 am

Anyone agree with this theory: That female vampire hybrid may produce venom that allows them to hunt, but it's not quite a potent as a full fledged vampire's?

It's at the Twilight Saga Wiki(I know, it's a glorified Wikipedia page), but it's been posed there. To quote(as if it'll make much sense): "There is however a recurring theory about hybrid vampires.Male hybrids have venom in their system because they inherited more genes from the vampire father than the human mothers. Female DO have venom albeit not as potent or infectious ( this theory is supported by the demonstration vampire venom has on its prey; Bella barely needed to hold down the lion she was feeding from, because the venom was already burning its system.) therefore Renesmee and Nahuel's sisters do have venom but it's potency is only capable of incapacitating an animal or a human being."

So could females really have venom?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:00 pm

I'd need to reread Bella's first hunt in BD, but I'm of the opinion that the venom plays very little part in the actual hunt. As Alice said in TW, their venom is "superfluous" and if they (vampires) are close enough to bite, it's already all over for the victim.

That passage about the lion can just as easily be attributed to her newborn strength. Also, if the hybrid females had any kind of venom at all, Nahuel would have mentioned it, and Jacob would have had some kind of reaction to all the bites Nessie gave him. (They do remember that Nessie bit Jacob regularly, and that vampire venom is poisonous to shapeshifters, right? Did they have a counterargument for that?)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby GrayceM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:11 pm

The book does state that Nessie bites Jacob all the time, but the venom would be poison to him. I think the passage you posted about the mountain lion barely having to be held down is because the venom is so incredibly painful the victim is incapacitated and Bella having newborn strength that can not be matched even by Emmett, the strongest vampire she knows aside from Felix.

As far as Bella's hallucinations in New Moon...I remember reading that and thinking (hoping) that his voice was real. That he had somehow found a way to link his mind to her so that he could watch over her. Afterall, she thought of him as a angel of sorts. I remember being extremely disappointed when she told him about the "voices" and he didn't admit right away that he had some sort of tenuous link to her...
In reading that passage again, there is room for Stephenie to play around with that if she ever put New Moon into Edwards point of view. Something about how she puts his reactions...maybe just my wishful thinking. :oops:

"His face was still tormented. I tried to distract him with inconsequentials.
"So --since you're staying. Can I have my stuff back?" I asked, making my tone as light as I could manage.
My attempt worked, to an extent: he laughed. But his eyes retained the misery. "Your things were never gone," he told me. "I knew it was wrong, since I promised you peace without reminders. It was stupid and childish, but I wanted to leave something of myself with you. The CD, the pictures, the tickets--they're all under your floorboards."
"Really?"
He nodded, seeming slightly cheered by my obviouos pleasure at this trivial fact. It wasn't enough to heal the pain in his face completely.
"I think," I said slowly, "I'm not sure, but I wonder...I think maybe I knew it the whole time."
"What did you know?"
I only wanted to take away the agony in his eyes, but as I spoke the words, they sounded truer than I expected they would.
"Some part of me, my subconscious maybe, never stopped believing that you still cared whether I lived or died. That's probably why I was hearing the voices"
There was a very deep silence for a moment. "Voices?" he asked flatly.
"Well, just one voice. Yours. It's a long story." The wary look on his face made me wish that I hadn't brought that up. Would he think I was crazy, like everyone else? Was everyone else right about that? But at least that expression--the one that made him look like something was burning him--faded.
"I've got time." His voice was unnaturally even.
"It's pretty pathetic."
He waited."


For me...until she finishes her story and he's incredulous to hear that she's been risking her life to hear his voice...I kept waiting for him to confirm that she wasn't as crazy as she thought. Though he does tell her that he was much worse during the separation than that. "It was much more pathetic than hearing voices. And, of course, you know I do that, too."
I think this was Bella's coping mechanism. The only way for her to keep her faith that he existed and that everything she experienced with him and felt for him was real. I recently lost my father and I have had dreams so vivid of him that I can still hear his voice even after I'm awake. I know how he would chuckle over a particular situation or how he would look if he wanted to tell me something important. I can see clearly the twinkle in his eye when he was trying not to laugh at how life comes back around...I can still feel how soft his hands were when he held mine...just as though I'm 5 years old again...
The stress of grief affects everyone differently, so I could see how she would hear his voice and know exactly what he would say for every given situation. Though if I remember correctly, when she is finally with him again, she admits to herself that the voice and the image of him in her mind do not come close to comparing with real life.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Knives » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:58 pm

@Openhome - Speaking of writing threads, where the hell are they?

I know that Knives has found the thread, but just in case someone else is wondering while they read this, the writers thread is found HERE.
Openhome wrote:Knives, I believe that..
wait for it...
you are right.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby AyaDiefair » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:12 am

Okay, so this thread is kinda dead at the moment, so I was going to try and bring it back to life. Not quite sure if it fits here but here it goes.

I was thinking about Vampires speed after watching Eclipse this morning and thought; Since Vampires can move so fast, why can't they run across water like the Basiliscus Lizard can? They have the speed, so why not run on top of it instead of swim?
I was pale before Twilight made it look cool.
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