True Love? Reality or Myth

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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Asheleyo » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:44 pm

Right, but in both cases there was love. I was merely addressing the fact that they said it didn't count if the object of love didn't know. I can't stand behind that.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:42 am

Asheleyo wrote:Right, but in both cases there was love. I was merely addressing the fact that they said it didn't count if the object of love didn't know. I can't stand behind that.



the courtly love of edward doesn't exist? I bet a lot of ladies would disagree... :lol: he surely does not know who is sending him love down to the person level
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Asheleyo » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:20 am

That's not at all what I'm saying. As I said, I was simply addressing the fact that for some reason they think you can't really love someone unless that person knows you love them. That's it.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:11 am

Asheleyo wrote:That's not at all what I'm saying. As I said, I was simply addressing the fact that for some reason they think you can't really love someone unless that person knows you love them. That's it.


Why? help me underatand this, I just don't see where the object of the affection has to know anything what's so ever? I do agree that it can be an object, but I usually call that coveting, just me...
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Asheleyo » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 am

gambit said "I personally don't think it's possible to love someone without getting to know them personally (and with the other person being aware of it lol)" and I was refuting that.

So, you and I agree on that point. I was trying to figure out why gambit felt that way, since there are plenty of cases of love when the object of love is unaware.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:19 am

Asheleyo wrote:gambit said "I personally don't think it's possible to love someone without getting to know them personally (and with the other person being aware of it lol)" and I was refuting that.

So, you and I agree on that point. I was trying to figure out why gambit felt that way, since there are plenty of cases of love when the object of love is unaware.


Sorry I thought it was you that had advanced that point...I think courtly love is the most proliphic form of love there is. You?
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Asheleyo » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:35 am

I tend to think that unrequited love is the most prolific, which I think could include courtly love. It's the idea of never being able to have what you want that intensifies the feelings. What some people would refer to as never getting "closure." I feel like the longer someone holds on to and lets simmer emotions, the worse they become, unless of course they just choose to move on. So if, in the situation you showed (someone in love with a married person), the object is unattainable, the love can feel like it's just too much to bare. Once love is requited, it's a great feeling, but sometimes people may feel a let-down because it's not everything they had time to fantasize about. Know what I mean?

I hope that was even an answer to your question, lol.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:40 am

Asheleyo wrote:I tend to think that unrequited love is the most prolific, which I think could include courtly love. It's the idea of never being able to have what you want that intensifies the feelings. What some people would refer to as never getting "closure." I feel like the longer someone holds on to and lets simmer emotions, the worse they become, unless of course they just choose to move on. So if, in the situation you showed (someone in love with a married person), the object is unattainable, the love can feel like it's just too much to bare. Once love is requited, it's a great feeling, but sometimes people may feel a let-down because it's not everything they had time to fantasize about. Know what I mean?

I hope that was even an answer to your question, lol.


Yes, there is a famous line from Spock in Amock Time, 'You will find that having is not as great as wanting, It is not logical but often true." Most things don't live up to the fantacy...

Unrequited love, yep, it's a nasty mistress that makes one do crazy things....
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby gamb1t » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:29 pm

Asheleyo wrote:gambit said "I personally don't think it's possible to love someone without getting to know them personally (and with the other person being aware of it lol)" and I was refuting that.

So, you and I agree on that point. I was trying to figure out why gambit felt that way, since there are plenty of cases of love when the object of love is unaware.


What we are defining as courtly love is a tad different. To me, and how I originally took the question, was that courtly love was being defined as the early stages of courtly love, where the two realize each other exist but don't really know each other because they are outside different social classes, nationalities, etc. And in this aspect, I don't really consider it love, merely attraction. Now, I do realize the full definition of courtly love involves being around each other and falling in love, but just not being able to be together in a "socially acceptable" manner. This is full courtly love that changes into true love. So, a minor misunderstanding because to me, I don't consider courtly love that has progressed to the point of actual physical romance, spending time in secret, etc to be courtly love anymore, rather true love. Because in the end of courtly love, both parties find either a way to be together or refuse to live without each other. But I still stand behind my point that there is a fine line between courtly love and obsession. For instance, I think Kate Beckinsale is gorgeous. I could idolize her, even meet her in person, claim to be in love with her, but let's be real...IT WONT HAPPEN. So from a classic literature point of few, that could almost be considered courtly love (very loose interpretation), and that's how I originally considered the question posed because that's all I could think about. Now, in some classic examples such as Romeo and Juliet, Lancelot/Guinevere, and other medieval examples, I feel that this is what is fully defined as the real courtly love scenario, but I feel that it is pretty much true love as well. I guess I'm having a hard time with this arguement because of the differences in the perception of courtly love and true love. In reality, courtly love is just what true love was called in Medieval Europe IMO, just a different set of circumstances. Back then, marriages were arranged, and while this still happens in some circumstances, it isn't something that happens on a day to day basis, so the term courtly love has just fallen under "true love" category because even today, sometimes people fall in love even though the circumstances don't allow it. Do we still label this as courtly love? Not really, so I would just say courtly love can either be completely different than true love, or one in the same (there isn't really a middle ground). Sorry for the rant, I just had a medieval literature class as an elective in college, and we had this arguement quite a bit back and forth. If you want a really good source on the arguement and courtly love in general, read C.S. Lewis' The Allegory of Love because it talks about the origination of courtly love and compares it to events in the bible, modern day society, etc. So, I apologize in advance if this just seems like random thoughts thrown together, but hopefully things are a tad more clear now because I think it was just a tad misunderstanding of what I had originally written because it was a little vague. But nevertheless, I still believe there is a fine line between courtly love and obsession and courtly love and attraction.

EDIT: Also, it's a hard subject to argue about because everyone's definition of love varies, so that might add a tad to the confusion too.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:59 am

No worries gamb1t, You birng up several things that give food for thought...I have read CS Lewis discussion on Love. My comments for the period comes from the Troubador songs, The concpet of Courtly love was one way while true love was both directions...But your correct love is very difficult to define or even come to an understanding with.
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