Explorations (**BD2 Movie Spoilers!**)

[December]

Personally, I wanted Bella to have an epiphany of what it means to become a vampire-the struggles as well as the happy ending, but I feel like the struggles were overlooked and the book was too focused on all the ways Bella and Edward are happy.

Well, won't it be intriguing to see if Bree's novella sheds an alternative light on this?...

[cullengirl]

I'm curious as to how Bree's novella will change our current standing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bree's novella is from Bree's perspective only, right? And if that's the case, how will it change Bella's views?

[Openhome]

I don't think it will change how we view Bella, or the fact that, as we have all stated, Bella's vampirism simply negated everything we had learned about vampires in the middle books, but I am hoping to see a little more clearly how SM views her vampires. Perhaps it will shed some light on why and how Bella had it so easy.

(Off topic, I've often wondered if this was a flip side to her "gift." Perhaps Bella's shield was two-fold and worked not only to protect her from others but to also protect her in some way from her own vampiric desires. I know, sheer speculation, but her easy transition really bothers me).

As you both have said, to me, the end of BD is almost too happy and perfect. I don't have an issue with HEA, but not on the scale that turns a romantic novel into a fairy tale.

SM has stated that if she were to continue the saga it would be through Renesme or Leah. I find the statement very funny because other than Irina, they are the ONLY ones who didn't get their HEA by the end of the book. Even Aro has been given information on a new hobby -- trying to make hybrid babies -- and we all know how much he enjoys experiments...

In any case, I am simply thrilled that she wrote anything at all about vampires. As a (*blushes intently*) canon writer of fanfiction -- please don't throw anything -- I am unbelievably curious about a newborn's state of mind and am anxious to read as much as I can about the life of a full vampire.

[December]

As a (*blushes intently*) canon writer of fanfiction -- please don't throw anything -- I am unbelievably curious about a newborn's state of mind and am anxious to read as much as I can about the life of a full vampire.

No throwing at all. How very cool. Now I realize that if I ever looked at banners (I tend to automatically screen out movie images) I'd have seen the link in yours.

I'm curious as to how Bree's novella will change our current standing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bree's novella is from Bree's perspective only, right? And if that's the case, how will it change Bella's views?

I don't think it will change how we view Bella, or the fact that, as we have all stated, Bella's vampirism simply negated everything we had learned about vampires in the middle books, but I am hoping to see a little more clearly how SM views her vampires. Perhaps it will shed some light on why and how Bella had it so easy.

You're both right: it won't change how Bella sees anything, or the way her own ending actually played out. To be honest, I'm not sure it's even going to add to our understanding of the mechanics -- the rationale Stephenie constructed for herself -- behind Bella's merciful exemption from the newborn’s usual hideous experience. It might, but then again it might not.

The one thing Bree's novella might do for me (obscure consolation though it is) would be to reaffirm that despite Breaking Dawn's extravagantly syrupy and sunlit turn of events, we didn't just project that dark side onto Stephenie's story. That the glimpses the first three books give us of the horror of what Bella is choosing -- and by implication, the spiritual grandeur of the difficult discipline she and the Cullens willingly embrace -- do mean something. That the "bloody morality tale" (as Knives put it) which those of us who go in for this sort of thing have been teasing out of this lighthearted teen romance wasn’t our own invention -- a bunch of fans thinking way too hard! -- but how Stephenie herself saw her story.

This series is a tantalizing puzzle because those glimpses certainly seem to be there, not just in the text but in Stephenie's FAQs and Q&As -- at the same time that the whole spirit of BD flies in the face of that hinted-at reading of her story. Yes, one can construct a balance sheet of Bella's sacrifices and recompense which preserves the moral reckoning, as Andy and JG have plausibly done. But BD shifts the story away from its original stark and romantic premise: of a love so resplendent that it outweighs any suffering. In Twilight, we watch Edward fall in love with Bella. It’s agony for him just to sit next to her -- searing temptation and dizzying physical pain -- but the boy is walking on air. Beside the miracle of loving and being loved, nothing else matters: he almost welcomes the pain as a sacifice -- a “burnt offering” he calls it -- that renders him worthy of this unlooked-for blessing. And keep in mind, it never stops being agony for him, even when he’s totally got over the temptation of Bella’s blood; but nothing he suffers for Bella casts the smallest shadow on the joy her love brings him. In Eclipse, we see in turn how truly Bella is Edward’s match in this depth of love that makes suffering and self-sacrifice of no consequence. Nothing that becoming a vampire can do to her -- the loss of friends and family, childlessness, the pain and struggle of the bloodlust -- matters compared to Edward. Their splendid indifference to the price they pay for loving one another -- and the steepness of that price -- spells out for us in giant block letters HOW UNIMAGINABLY MUCH THEY LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

That is what BD seems to rescind. Which does then leave one wondering: did we make it all up?

Midnight Sun, of course, adds its weight to the other side of the balance. In a backhanded way, I think The Host does too. I suppose I’m simply curious to see whether Bree’s story will add its mite here, and strengthen my shaky conviction that the grim side of vampire existence, which the Saga itself makes it so easy to brush aside, was terribly important to Stephenie. That this WAS the story which she (or at least some part of her, the part to whom Edward relayed the events of MS, NM and EC) wanted to tell: the sacrifice of everything for love. Even if the denouement she came up with back in the days of Forever Dawn doesn't quite help her to tell it....

[andypalmer]

Well, I can't really argue with the unsatisfied emotions of how Bella's change was resolved; my 'Y' chromosome must give me a different perspective

I was thinking last night of the perceived ease in which Bella resists her feeding urges and would like to bring out two points.

1. Bella had a typical newborn reaction to her first scent of human blood and SM did a good job explaining how she was able to shift her focus at that time. Her second experience with a fully human scent was her father. I would hazard a guess that vampires other than Cullens and Hales have resisted the urge to feed on a loved one.

2. One of the themes throughout the Saga is that free agency, that choice, supersedes nature. Perhaps because it's also an LDS teaching, I noticed it more than some, but it does exist throughout Twilight. Besides the obvious example of the Cullens as a whole, we have the more personal example of Edward during TW, in which he makes the decision not to feed on Bella, despite the thirst. He talks about how he wasn't sure UNTIL he had made that firm decision; his will superseded his nature. This same decision stood him in good stead even during Bella's disastrous birthday party at the start of NM. In stark, and deliberate contrast is Jasper, who struggles with Bella's apparent ease of resistance because he realizes that it is only his own lack of expectation in himself that is causing him the extreme difficulty and that if he expected more of himself, if he made the decision not to feed on humans any more, that he be as successful as Bella.

Mormons teach abstinence to our youth, teaching that we should wait until marriage. From my observation, those that make the decision to do so are the ones who achieve that goal. Those who instead expect less of themselves, who try but are unsure of their ability to resist those natural urges, are the ones who struggle. The same principle applies to vampires.

[December]

From my observation, those that make the decision to do so are the ones who achieve that goal. Those who instead expect less of themselves, who try but are unsure of their ability to resist those natural urges, are the ones who struggle. The same principle applies to vampires.

Interesting take on this. I've always found that remark of Edward's ("and while there was still that possibility that I might be...overcome, I was...susceptible. Until I made up my mind that I was strong enough, that there was no possibility at all that I would...") slightly puzzling. Maybe because the way it's phrased, it seems less like a statement about choice and more about self-knowledge (ie "until I knew I wasn't susceptible I was still susceptible" -- which doesn't make much sense!). But I think you're suggesting that the choice and the self-knowledge are connected, that "I made up my mind" describes a decision as well as an assessment -- because an ability to commit oneself and confidence in that ability are simply two sides of that mysterious force which is willpower. Yes? In which case, Edward's declaration is a lot less opaque. Thank you for that!

[Jazz Girl]

and while there was still that possibility that I might be...overcome, I was...susceptible. Until I made up my mind that I was strong enough, that there was no possibility at all that I would...

December & Andypalmer~ That's how I have always read that statement of Edward's. Edward knew he would never want to hurt Bella. But, he knew instinctual reactions are beyond want and logical control. Until he was proven wrong, until he decided and accepted that he is, in fact, strong enough to contain that part of him, he doesn't know it. Edward lives in is head. Until he knows something, it isn't reality for him. It's similar to what you said, Andypalmer, about the difference between those with different expectations.

The same principle can be applied, in my opinion, to the how and why of Edward's leaving in New Moon. Edward expected Bella to love him less, believed she did, merely on the basis that she was human and human emotions are fleeting. He knew it. And, so he believed that the pain of his actions would be fleeting, would not affect her as profoundly as they did. Jut as he did with his ability to control his bloodlust in Bella's presence, he had to be proven wrong about the depth of her love for him. He had to see it, experience for himself, that her love runs just as deep for him as his does for her. His first glimpse is her salvation in New Moon. The process continues through Eclipse culminating in their discussion after her night of tears over Jacob. When she tells him without pause or doubt or question that she knows who she cannot live without, that he is truly the other half of her soul, I think he finally sees the equality of their love that she's been trying impress upon him. She may not feel like she deserves his love or that she is worthy of standing next to him as a human. But, she never doubted that she loved him just as deeply, if not more so than he did her. It is only once he accepts that, knows it as he knows he can control the monster within him, that he can accept her sacrifice for him.

I suppose that's why it is impossible for me to disregard NM and EC. Because without them, the conclusion doesn't add up.

[GrayceM]

I am so glad I found this thread. This is an excellent discussion and I've enjoyed reading the opinions and rationalizations of the characters and story. There's a lot to keep up with while reading this but I would like to add to the mix a little...


On Bella's transformation:
I think December posted that Edward acting to save her life instead of acting to keep her is less romantic. I have to disagree with this. I have this section bookmarked because to me it is so romantic, though maybe a bit morbid since it's seen from Jacob's perspective.
In Eclipse Bella sees this to be a romantic gesture of his willingness to accept her, to actively choose to change her in order to keep her. He believes, as they all do, that the closer the venom enters the system to the heart, the quicker the transformation takes place. It's my opinion, we all get both.
Edward injects his venom directly into her heart. But at the time her heart had stopped and Jacob was administering CPR. The last "good thing she feels" is Renesmee in her arms. After the injection, he orders Jacob to "Keep it moving" and so he begins pumping her heart for her.
Even though he has injected her with his venom directly to her heart in the hope that it will lessen her pain, he also does the extra active measure of biting her repeatedly and healing her wounds.

"It was like he was kissing her, brushing his lips at her throat, at her wrists, into the crease at the inside of her arm. But I could hear the lush tearing of skin as his teeth bit through, again and again, forcing venom into her system at as many points as possible. I saw his pale tongue sweep along the bleeding gashes, but before this could make me either sick or angry, I realized what he was doing. Where his tongue washed the venom over her skin, it sealed shut. Holding the poison and the blood inside her body."

From Bella's perspective, she was fighting the blackness from overwhelming her. There is not a time during this that she isn't aware that both Edward and Jacob are doing everything they can to save her, but there is also not a time that she realizes that he heart has stopped. And honestly, at that point, I don't think she realized that this is when she would have to be changed.

To expand a little on the actual transformation and Bella's stillness during the transition...
In reading this again, I believe that despite her eventual resolve, she would have screamed and writhed in agony had she been able to.

"The fire blazed hotter and I wanted to scream. To beg someone to kill me now, before I lived one more second in this pain. But I couldn't move my lips. The weight was still there, pressing on me.
I realized it wasn't the darkenss holding me down; it was my body"
..."Why couldn't I move? Why couldn't I scream? This wasn't part of the stories." "...and I saw the answer almost as soon as I could form the questions. The morphine."
..."Because I'd had morphine and venom together in my system before, and I knew the truth. I knew the numbness of the medicine was completely irrelevant while the venom seared through my veins."
"I hadn't guess that the morphine would have this effect - that it would pin me down and gag me. Hold me paralyzed while I burned."
..."I'd hoped that maybe I could be like Carlisle. That I would believe Rosalie's words and keep my mouth shut. Because I knew that every scream that escaped my lips would torment Edward. Now it seemed like a hideous joke that I was getting my wish fullfilled."

Then after she has endured for what seemed an eternity already, the morphine wears off. By then she is able to remember why she shouldn't scream. She says: "...it felt like I'd gone from being tied to the stake as I burned, to gripping that stake to hold myself in the fire."
In my opinion, Andy has it right on this one. Bella knows that there is nothing that will help or lessen her pain but at the very least, she can keep him from knowing and agonizing over it. Had he done this without it being necessary to save her life, I don't believe that either of them would have had the same reaction. And I don't believe that Edward would have been able to withstand it. She had time to recover her thoughts and keep quiet and still so that he would not know because of the emergency and the morphine. "Right now he only feared that I was suffering" .
Had it really been by choice at a designated time, having to tell Carlisle or Edward that she was ready and to go ahead and bite or inject her...knowing that the morphine wouldn't help...I don't think even Bella would have been able to do that without her blood pressure being so high that it would only work to burn off the morphine quicker and she wouldn't have had time to focus on not showing the pain. By the time she could react, she knew that Carlisle and Alice would support Edward and reassure him through it. He need never know the extent of the pain she's willing to endure for him.

I had more to add in other discussions but I'll have to read the thread again to pick them back up.

[December]

Welcome to the discussion, Grayce! Glad you've found us.

As Andy says, one can't really argue with people's different emotional responses to Bella's change. Everything you say makes logical sense: the way things actually happen in BD is a totally practical way of resolving the storyline. It just doesn't work for me (emotionally) when taken as part of the larger arc of the series -- for all the complicated tangle of reasons I've tried to explain here and on the Choices thread.

At any rate, it's clear one doesn't have to have a Y chromosome to feel comfortable with the way Bella's change is handled in BD! I've often wondered how much it has to do with whether one read EC before BD was out and had a year to spend ruminating on how the story would be completed -- instead of moving smoothly from one book to the next. Which cuts both ways: a year gives one time to reflect on the story laid out in the first three books undistracted by BD -- but one can also get wedded to one's own stubborn preconceptions!

I suppose that's why it is impossible for me to disregard NM and EC. Because without them, the conclusion doesn't add up.

I know. But then...it doesn't add up with them either. (*grin*)

And I must admit, I think there is some sense in which BD actually does make better sense if you imagine the events of NM and EC haven't yet happened! But that's a long discussion....

[andypalmer]

I've often wondered how much it has to do with whether one read EC before BD was out and had a year to spend ruminating on how the story would be completed -- instead of moving smoothly from one book to the next. Which cuts both ways: a year gives one time to reflect on the story laid out in the first three books undistracted by BD -- but one can also get wedded to one's own stubborn preconceptions!

To add a data point, I read the entire saga in 5 days straight (I did go to work, and slept occasionally, but I was up till 3 am twice). So to me, I was devouring the story as it unfolded, feeling every emotion and anticipating the next scene; in the context, for me at least, Bella's transformation was perfect.