Explorations (**BD2 Movie Spoilers!**)

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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Fri May 25, 2012 11:35 pm

As SM says somewhere on this site, Carlisle, for instance, is never as tortured about the idea of Edward loving Bella as Edward himself is. That's mainly because he has faith. Faith in something afterwards for this life even for a vampire. So certainly he, if no one else, would not have viewed things in a strictly fatalistic sense, as Edward did, even if it meant that Bella was to become a vampire if she and Edward became lovers.

I think Esme would have sided with Carlisle. She believes in Edward, and wants every good thing for him. Jasper might not have agreed, especially given his struggles with the vampire life, but Alice I think would have, if only because of the side benefit of having Bella in her life forever. Emmett wouldn't have got bent out of shape over it either, because I don't think he views vampirism as a curse, in spite of its limitations. Rosalie disagrees, but more because of jealousy, at least initially. Her objections become a little less self focused as time goes on, but they always still have some self focus, as her objection to Bella becoming a vampire is mainly related to her own unhappiness in that life, and the fact that she didn't get a chance to choose, rather than a strictly objective viewpoint based on Bella's own wants and needs, viewed with her personality in mind. I mean, even if she looks at her own husband, she sees someone who gets along quite well with the life without a problem, and while not an ideal life, she couldn't deny that Emmett is happy.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Violet Sunlight » Sat May 26, 2012 1:08 pm

***Midnight Sun reference***

Tornado ~ Yes, I agree with what you said in your last post. When I said "Edward's painful HEA or potential painful HEA", I meant, a physical and emotional painful path leading to Edward’s HEA or potential HEA. I am assuming that the family had an inclination of how Edward felt about being a vampire, and at this point in the story, the family knew Edward would not only have to come to terms with Bella’s potential painful transformation but Edward would have to come to terms with who he is and what being a yellow-eyed vampire is. In addition, at this point of the story, and assuming the family believe the vision to be correct, the family knew the painful reality that awaited Bella, meaning the painful imminent death circumstance (at this point of the story they did not believe in changing healthy-Bella like they did at the end of NM) that would lead to the painful transformation that would, of course, lead to the HEA that was in Alice’s vision.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Sat May 26, 2012 5:12 pm

I disagree. I don't think they would have assumed that she would have to be dying to be changed in this circumstance. That would suggest that they were thinking she would be changed when she was an elderly woman! I mean, how many likely near death experiences would befall a healthy 17 year old (admittedly, Bella probably scores higher than most!)? Certainly, at the beginning of NM, when Bella eyes Carlisle about changing her, Carlisle simply tells her that's something she'll have to sort out with Edward. He doesn't frown and say, "Well, we can't do that unless you're dying, can we?" The Twilight outtake with Emmett certainly suggests that he thinks Bella may as well be turned sooner rather than later, as soon as Edward realises that it's "inevitable".

Also, and I can't be sure as I haven't read all of Midnight Sun (unfortunately! :rant: ) But I'm pretty sure that, when they are taking Bella away to hide her from James, that Alice is suggesting to Edward in her mind that the safest thing to do for Bella at that point is change her. I have gathered, from some interviews with SM, that this is why Edward yells "There is no other option!" at her, because he will not accept transformation as an option to keep her safe. And she is not in danger of imminent death at that point. Edward thinks it's possible for them to kill James before he can get to Bella, so if Alice is thinking it at that stage, then she is clearly willing to see Bella changed without imminent death as a precursor to her change. And I believe that is the case for most of the Cullens, with the exception of Rosalie, and the possible exception (prior to the events of NM) of Jasper.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Violet Sunlight » Sun May 27, 2012 2:36 pm

***Some Midnight Sun References***

Tornado ~ The car accident was already Bella’s imminent death circumstance #2 and only a few weeks from Bella’s imminent death circumstance #1 in biology class. Even more importantly, Carlisle had never changed anyone who wasn’t at the point of dying before. I just don’t see Carlisle changing his standards on the day of the car accident even with Alice’s vision, it's just not enough imminent death circumstances, yet. Also, I am assuming Alice’s vision is of vampire-Bella being young because Edward and Alice do not mention that Bella is an older looking vampire and given the fact that Carlisle, at that point of the story, had only ever been okay with changing someone who was dying, that must of meant something must have happened to Bella that necessitated her to become a vampire while young. Further, Bella is the FIRST human to ever want to be a yellow-eyed vampire and at this point in the story, Carlisle, and the rest of them at that table, would have no reason to believe a human would willingly want to become one of them, which therefore made me believe that young human Bella was changed in Alice's vision because of an imminent death circumstance.

Secondly, regarding Carlisle telling Bella in the beginning of NM “that is something she will have to sort out with Edward”, I personally think after Jasper’s attack Carlisle is beginning to side with Bella’s logic. But, more importantly, Carlisle says that to Bella after 4 imminent death circumstances in Bella’s life and all within a year and three of which were by vampires. I personally, just don't see Carlisle changing his standards the day of the car accident. IMO, Edward suicidal attempt at the end of NM was the last straw for Carlisle. I am glad the NM movie got that interpretation right.

Thirdly, regarding Emmett’s outtake, I noticed Emmett thought of changing Bella after Edward listed many different possible ways a human could die. It was only then that Emmett thought changing healthy-Bella was something he would do, if it were him in Edward's shoes, and only to avoid the many imminent death possibilities Edward mentioned. Though, IMO, at the table in MS, I doubt he was thinking it would be okay. He was actually laughing at Edward’s odd predicament, I personally, don’t think the night of the car accident Emmett would be okay with changing a healthy human. Also, doesn’t Edward say something like ALL of them would give anything to be human again. Therefore, at the table discussion in MS, I don’t see any of them recommending any healthy human be changed.

Fourthly, regarding Edward saying “there is no other option!”, while I do agree with your interpretation of what Edward is saying to Alice’s mental suggestion, (by the way, my sincerest thanks for that insight, I must of missed the SM interviews on the subject or read it and forgot about it) I think Alice believes the situation merits Bella being changed, James is the very real potential imminent death circumstance. Alice would not have suggested the change otherwise.

Lastly, I am curious, why do you think Jasper would possibly not want Bella changed before NM?

P.S. I too wish Midnight Sun would get published already or better yet, all 4 books be written and published from Edward’s PoV. Though, I think SM has said she would not write all 4 books from Edward’s PoV.
But, one can dream. ;)
Last edited by Violet Sunlight on Sun May 27, 2012 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Sun May 27, 2012 5:06 pm

While it's true that Carlisle had never changed anyone who wasn't dying before, he also never had a reason to. However, the mere fact that he changed anyone at all suggests (and I know I've mentioned this before) that he is not as adverse to people being in the vampiric life as someone like Edward is. He simply didn't see the point in changing anyone until there was a boy he cared about dying in front of him and he couldn't stand to lose him. Therefore, I think it stands to reason, that if the girl who fell in love with that boy was standing before him declaring her willingness to become a vampire to be with one she loved, he would seriously consider that she should be changed without any death circumstance present. I don't think it would be an easy decision for him, but I think that would be more because of her family's suffering than anything else. But I think, because of his faith, he would eventually decide (as he did) that it was necessary.

With Jasper, I think he might be hesitant because of the struggles he has with the life. I honestly don't think Emmett would have cared at any point, because he's not the kind of person who gets hung up on things or thinks that deeply about issues like Edward does. I don't think that Edward listing possible hazards for Bella's life would have made any difference. He simply doesn't think that way. And I think that Alice would have been willing to see Bella changed at any point, it's just that James gave her a justified reason to push for it. I don't think she would have pushed for it at that point without that circumstance, but that doesn't mean she didn't think it should happen. Certainly, by the time of NM, what she says during the plane flight suggests that she's been waiting for Edward to come to the realisation that it has to happen and do it himself (or ask Carlisle to do it) and she's just sick of waiting, so she's decided to take action herself, especially since it's clear what will happen if Bella dies. But I don't think that Edward's attempted suicide is the primary motivating factor for her (although it's certainly one of them), it's just that it makes her realise that if he's going to be that stubborn, someone has to make the move for him.

Now, when it comes to Edward's comment in the MS draft, I think that remark is conditional. I don't think any of them would consider it so quickly if it meant leaving their lovers behind. Rosalie is the only exception. You'll notice that, when speaking of Rosalie, he points out the extreme she will go to, saying she'd give anything up, even Emmett. This suggests to me that he realises that the others would not be so willing if they had to leave others behind. Would Carlisle want to become human again? I'm sure he would. But would he do it if Esme had to remain a vampire? I'm not sure he would in those circumstances. So I think the circumstance of love would make them all think twice, apart from Rosalie. Even Edward caves to it eventually, agreeing that Bella should become a vampire of her own free will, with no mitigating circumstances.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Violet Sunlight » Mon May 28, 2012 1:47 pm

Firstly, thank you again Tornado, for sharing your comments about Jasper and actually more than once. I do agree with you, that Jasper probably would not want Bella to become a vampire because of his struggles. I just thought he would not mind one way or the other being that he is with the Cullens because of Alice.

Secondly, if I may, I would like to make my last points, on the subject, before we respectfully have to agree to disagree on this matter. Before NM, IMO, I think Carlisle is not (if I may use your word) "adverse" to changing dying people. In the car ride, after the meadow scene in TW Bella says, “So you must be dying, then, to become…” then Edward (underline is mine) says, “No, that’s just Carlisle. He would never do that to someone who had another choice.” Now, I do understand that he is referring to an innocent bystander, of sorts, not exactly one who is volunteering to be a vampire like Bella, but the fact is Bella did have a choice and though Bella freely chose to become a vampire the CHOICE is still there.

Thirdly and moreover, as I mentioned before, IMO, from Alice’s vision the family could not have foreknew that Bella would be the FIRST to willingly want to be a yellow-eyed vampire, therefore, IMO, they could not jump to the conclusion that she was changed without an imminent death circumstance as they were (Jasper excluded and to some degree Alice too, being that she still had no knowledge of her human life at this point), therefore, they would have assumed that she was changed due to an imminent death circumstance. Even if Alice’s vision showed that Bella was happy as human around yellow-eyed vampires or was happy to be a yellow-eyed vampire as Emmett is (which I can’t remember right now if she was or wasn’t happy as a vampire in the vision), IMO, that still would not have been an indicator that Bella was changed while being a healthy human and because she chose it. However, I do believe the family was happy and saddened and incredulous at the same time that a HEA, odd as it may be, was in the horizon for Edward, though the path seemed painful, emotionally and physically. When I say painful, I mean, for Edward he has to live with the “singer” pain for a while and Bella has to live with the fact that she knows he is in pain, and of course, because Edward and Bella will have to suffer not only Bella’s imminent death circumstance but her painful transformation as I said before.

Fourthly, while I agree that Carlisle felt something special for dying Edward, that was not reason enough for Carlisle to change him. It was only when Edward’s mother, somewhat, consented did Carlisle act. Further, wasn’t the conversation Bella and Carlisle had in the beginning of NM, while stitching her up after Jasper’s attack, Carlisle denying healthy-Bella’s request to be changed into a vampire? Not that he had to promise to change her that very day but he could have promised her to change her in the near future. If Carlisle really believed changing healthy-Bella was okay because Edward and Bella were in love and destined to be with each other, he would not have needed Edward’s consent. Bella’s word should have been enough. The love between Bella and Edward, that Carlisle himself witnessed, should have been enough for Carlisle to change healthy-Bella at her request, but it was not. Ironically, Edward’s consent wasn’t needed at the end of NM either. In any case, something more was needed than the love between Edward and Bella. Edward’s survival being tied to human Bella was the key to changing Carlisle’s standards of changing people. IMO, the dying circumstance element is what is always needed for Carlisle to act, not love.

Lastly, regarding Edward’s comment in MS draft, (by the way, thanks for pointing that it was MS draft, I went back to my last post and fixed the invisible ink on that) while I somewhat agree with what you said, I think that Edward’s comment expresses how precious and valuable human life is. Which is why I brought it up, being that Carlisle, and the family, share this view with Edward and would thereby, IMO, not hold the view that changing healthy-human-Bella even if she would have chosen to be changed would be something they would consider on the day of the car accident to consequently, have her possibly ponder on the same feelings they all share of wanting to be human if they could but because of their present circumstances would not, even if they could. Rosalie excluded because as you mentioned before we know she would.

As always thank you for all your patience and time,
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    Re: Explorations

    Postby Tornado » Tue May 29, 2012 3:36 am

    Violet Sunlight wrote:Before NM, IMO, I think Carlisle is not (if I may use your word) "adverse" to changing dying people. In the car ride, after the meadow scene in TW Bella says, “So you must be dying, then, to become…” then Edward (underline is mine) says, “No, that’s just Carlisle. He would never do that to someone who had another choice.” Now, I do understand that he is referring to an innocent bystander, of sorts, not exactly one who is volunteering to be a vampire like Bella, but the fact is Bella did have a choice and though Bella freely chose to become a vampire the CHOICE is still there.


    Yes, but it was a choice that she made, and she and the Cullens were happy with that choice. That's why they all agreed she should be changed without being on her deathbed. Just because they didn't vote on it until the end of NM doesn't mean that they didn't think it wouldn't happen that way. They voted at that point only because Bella asked them to, because the situation with the Volturi had driven her to take that action, because Edward was still stubbornly refusing to consider changing her.

    Violet Sunlight wrote:Thirdly and moreover, as I mentioned before, IMO, from Alice’s vision the family could not have foreknew that Bella would be the FIRST to willingly want to be a yellow-eyed vampire, therefore, IMO, they could not jump to the conclusion that she was changed without an imminent death circumstance as they were (Jasper excluded and to some degree Alice too, being that she still had no knowledge of her human life at this point), therefore, they would have assumed that she was changed due to an imminent death circumstance. Even if Alice’s vision showed that Bella was happy as human around yellow-eyed vampires or was happy to be a yellow-eyed vampire as Emmett is (which I can’t remember right now if she was or wasn’t happy as a vampire in the vision), IMO, that still would not have been an indicator that Bella was changed while being a healthy human and because she chose it. However, I do believe the family was happy and saddened and incredulous at the same time that a HEA, odd as it may be, was in the horizon for Edward, though the path seemed painful, emotionally and physically. When I say painful, I mean, for Edward he has to live with the “singer” pain for a while and Bella has to live with the fact that she knows he is in pain, and of course, because Edward and Bella will have to suffer not only Bella’s imminent death circumstance but her painful transformation as I said before.


    I don't think they necessarily formed any opinions on how Bella would or would not be changed when Alice first told them about her vision. However, I think they would have thought about it a lot over the following days and weeks, and I believe that most of them would have come to the conclusion that a dying circumstance was unlikely, and not the best scenario when all factors were considered. After all, they all know perfectly well someone doesn't have to be dying to be changed, even if that was the way Carlisle operated up until that stage, and waiting until she is on her deathbed is a risky thing to do.

    Let's look at the situation. They've just found out that their son (and brother) is falling in love with a human. Alice tells them that he will either kill her himself, or she will become a vampire, like them. Alice makes it clear that Bella's death would have a profound affect on Edward, so the idea that she would die would be a bad thing, not only for her, but for Edward. Also, since Alice's vision are the result of choices, it would be logical for them to at least consider that Bella had chosen the life herself or, at the very least, was attracted enough to Edward to risk her life to associate with him, which suggests that she loves him strongly as well.


    As a result, it would seem more logical to assume that Bella found out about the vampire life and wanted to join it. After all, if she and Edward were in love, would they wait for her to be hit by a car, like she was in the parking lot at the school, before she was changed? That would be incredibly risky, and not just because they might not be quick enough to change her, but because of risk of exposure. Who would do it in that situation? It would have to be Carlisle, at that stage, because everyone would doubt Edward would have the control to do it himself, and no one else would be game enough to try, as they've never done it before. So they've got to hope, if Bella is hanging to life by a thread, that she lives long enough to get to Carlisle in order for him to change her, which he would also have to do where there were no witnesses (and modern day hospitals have a lot more security, even for dead bodies, then they did back in the early 20th century), and no one realising where she'd gone. It seems a lot more risky than changing her by her choice. She was likely to die before she got to Carlisle, especially with Bella's luck, which they had all already experienced that very day in the school parking lot.

    Or maybe they'd assume that Edward would wait until she was dying of natural causes. That wouldn't be much good for either of them, really. Then she might die when she was sixty, and then they change her, and what kind of a relationship would she and Edward have then, when she would have changed over the course of time, as a normal human would, when he had not? As Bella rightly realised, it would make their relationship difficult.

    So I think it is more than likely that, if the Cullens were considering how Bella would be changed as a result of Alice's vision, it would most likely be by her choice. They are aware that she will probably find out what they are. As Emmett says, "It's bound to happen[i.e. her finding out about them], with what Alice sees coming." So I think that they would also realise that her change would be at her consent, not because she's on her deathbed. It wouldn't make sense to hang around and wait for that, and the risks involved if they left it to when her life was in danger are enormous, and it would have to be at least a possibility that she wouldn't survive in those circumstances.

    So it seems logical to me that some of them, Alice and Emmett at the very least, would have thought soon after that meeting that she became a vampire voluntarily to be with Edward. Edward thinks so himself. He believes that Alice's vision means he forces Bella into this life by making Carlisle change her. There is no mention that he thinks this will be caused by her being on her deathbed, so I don't think he considered that, and I think it's likely at least some of the others were thinking along similar lines soon after Alice told them her vision.
    Violet Sunlight wrote:Fourthly, while I agree that Carlisle felt something special for dying Edward, that was not reason enough for Carlisle to change him. It was only when Edward’s mother, somewhat, consented did Carlisle act.


    So that would indicate he might be willing to act with consent in other circumstances.

    Violet Sunlight wrote: Further, wasn’t the conversation Bella and Carlisle had in the beginning of NM, while stitching her up after Jasper’s attack, Carlisle denying healthy-Bella’s request to be changed into a vampire?


    I think he was saying that she had to sort it out with Edward. He knew Edward was not in favour of the idea, and so didn't want to go against his son's wishes at that time. It wouldn't have been great for Edward and Bella's relationship, nor Carlisle's relationship with Edward, if he did it when Edward was so against it. Of course, the events of NM changed that, and Carlisle was willing to change her anyway, as he realised that, if his son was so hellbent on killing himself when Bella died, he couldn't just stand around and let that happen. I think it likely that he thought Edward would give in at some point and agree that Bella should be changed. I think Alice also thought this, but seeing Edward's stubbornness, even in the face of the Volturi's involvement, was the last straw for Carlisle.

    Violet Sunlight wrote: IMO, the dying circumstance element is what is always needed for Carlisle to act, not love.


    If that was the case, he never would have agreed to change her at the end of NM, because there was no imminent dying circumstance. Edward was pretty sure that the Volturi wouldn't be able to find Bella if he hid her, and, given the silence of Bella's mind, this is at least a possibility. If Carlisle was that set against changing anyone who wasn't dying, he would have insisted Bella wait until there was no other possibility. No, I believe Carlisle's hesitation at the beginning of NM is because he is waiting for his son to make the decision, not because he wants Bella bled out and dying in front of him before he dares to bite her.

    Violet Sunlight wrote: Lastly, regarding Edward’s comment in MS draft, (by the way, thanks for pointing that it was MS draft, I went back to my last post and fixed the invisible ink on that) while I somewhat agree with what you said, I think that Edward’s comment expresses how precious and valuable human life is. Which is why I brought it up, being that Carlisle, and the family, share this view with Edward and would thereby, IMO, not hold the view that changing healthy-human-Bella even if she would have chosen to be changed would be something they would consider on the day of the car accident to consequently, have her possibly ponder on the same feelings they all share of wanting to be human if they could but because of their present circumstances would not, even if they could. Rosalie excluded because as you mentioned before we know she would.


    But Carlisle's views are a little different from Edward's as SM has pointed out herself on this site. He doesn't view Bella's change as being as tragic as Edward thinks, because he has faith. That's why he conceded to change anyone into a vampire at all. But Edward leaves because he believes human death is preferable to vampire life. If Carlisle felt that way, he wouldn't have changed anyone at all. But Edward can't accept that the life he lives is good for anyone he loves, regardless of the circumstance that leads them to it. That's why he breaks Bella's heart, to save her from a fate worse than death. As SM put it on her website (I think!), Edward knew he couldn't stand around and watch her die, so he left before biting her became a necessity, ensuring that she would die a natural death as a human, rather than end up as a vampire at all.
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    Re: Explorations

    Postby corona » Tue May 29, 2012 4:41 pm

    Violet Sunlight, I tend to agree with Tornado. Carlisle's issue (in my opinion) was that he was the one making the choices, so he wasn't going to make that choice except under the extreme conditions he found Edward and Esme in.

    Carlisle gave it a lot of thought, over 200 years worth. He was lonely and wanted companionship more than anything else. But, he knew it was immoral to simply change someone when they had their future ahead of them. The only way he could see changing someone was when they no longer had a future. He couldn't very well ask this person what they thought about it either. Human knowledge of vampires was forbidden, so the opportunity of finding someone who actually expressed their desire to become one was non-existent.

    That was Carlisle's dilemna. He could choose who he wanted to change, but he would never know how they would make the choice themselves since it could never be a subject of discussion, he could only make his best guess and hope it turned out right. And, he waited a very long time before making that move.

    Edward's mother finally pushes him over the edge by begging him to save Edward as only he could, and Carlisle takes that at a sign that the time is now.

    With Esme, Carlisle already had a connection and was a little bolder by then since Edward turned out well.

    Rosalie was different, Carlisle changing her was an immediate emotional response to her condition, he didn't have any clue how it would turn out, and his lucky streak runs out.

    I'm going to venture out on a limb and say there were two aspects to changing Rosalie that influences Carlisle later on.

    First, he was always taking a risk and was fortunate the first two eventually adapted well, but Rosalie showed him that he was always gambling. Changing Emmett was repairing the damage he had done, and I think he swears off changing anyone else after that. It would not occur to him to consider changing a human who asks for it, Who fully makes their own choice and is aware of all of the consequences, because that is never going to happen, no human will ever know exactly who the Cullens really are (until Bella comes along).

    Second, I would think Carlisle would be VERY reticent about inserting himself into any romantic conflict, especially where it concerns Edward and where Carlisle was hoping once before that Edward and Rosalie would become a couple. I know, those are different circumstances, but Carlisle got burned before playing matchmaker.

    Carlisle's attitude at the beginning of NM makes sense, this is something that Bella and Edward need to work out, and its likely a timing issue, Edward has to work his way through it. I don't see Carlisle rejecting Bella's wish at all, I see him asking her to wait until Edward is ready.

    By the end of NM they have worked through it, Edward's just being incredibly stubborn and won't admit it. I have enormous sympathy for Edward and his religious and philosophical misgivings, but I'm with Alice that it was just getting beyond ridiculous. I think Carlisle and Alice were on the same page, but Carlisle was more diplomatic.

    ***************

    As far as Jasper goes, I too see him as being very cautious about changing anyone due to the life he led. The only newborns he has every encountered are the ravening bloodthirsty kind. When he votes "Yes", he is probably thinking that Bella has no idea what she is really asking for (and I'm sure he doesn't like voting against his brother).

    As for Rosalie, she is unwittingly highlighting the difference between her and Bella. Rosalie didn't have a choice and no one really "voted" on changing her. Bella's circumstances are different, she is wanting to exercise a choice on the matter. Rosalie may have a good argument against making the change and could conceivably establish a well principled vote of "No", but she doesn't make one, she simply tells Bella she didn't get a choice, so Bella doesn't get one either.
    "It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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    Re: Explorations

    Postby Tornado » Tue May 29, 2012 4:53 pm

    There are some good points there, corona. Especially the one about Rosalie. I guess there is a lot of selfishness in her viewpoint there, too.
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    Re: Explorations

    Postby Jazz Girl » Tue May 29, 2012 5:14 pm

    Tornado & Violet Sunlight~ A wonderful discussion. Agreement or disagreement aside, I wonder if I could throw a monkey in the wrench, so to speak. It does tend to be something at which I'm fairly accomplished. If I could, I'd like to suggest another alternative altogether. The conversation to this point has circled around who was going to change Bella based upon her choice to become a vampire because of her love for Edward. It's a fair assumption based upon how we know the story unfolds. However, think about the timing of Alice's vision. At that time, Bella had no idea what Edward was and thought that he hated her. Edward had made no decision about his feelings for Bella beyond knowing he didn't want to leave her. So, those two statements being indisputable fact, how could Bella's decisions (even when Edward's future decisions are taken into account) extend to choosing to embrace a vampiric life?

    We know the future vascillated between Bella's death and her transformation. But, I think the cause, at that time, was much simpler. I think, as the relationship between Edward and Bella deepened and revealed itself, and as Edward became more and more accepting of the possibility of Bella's change (subconciously of course), then it became more about informed choices. But, the original choices were much more instinctual. I think the vision (at least at that time) addressed an entirely different reason for her change. Edward was going to lose control with the result being one of two very different outcomes. Either Edward was going to kill her by drinking her dry, or Edward attacked her and something interupted it in time to allow for the transformation in stead. Now, the twisted romantic in me believes that it was because he found enough presence of mind to realize what he was doing and managed to pull away and allow the change. And, some of Alice's statements back this up to a degree. But, I'm also realistic enough to realize that someone might have intervened, perhaps Carlisle or Alice. Thoughts and reflections?
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