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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby KaseyHeartEdward » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Okay wow it has been busy lol

okay one yes girls might take the books the wrong way. But omg be glad they are reading and not doing other things. Plus i mean we really don't have enough plastic bubbles to go around. lol. This i part of growing up learning right or wrong. I have read many young adult books and trust me Twilight is pretty tamed. Many books i read mention sex and drugs. Heck the one i am reading does. But does that mean that people who are reading it are going to make those mistakes. Im 21 and have never had achohal, drugs, or even a relationship. Yes im a "good girl" :roll:



Terracottakitten wrote:
moon sidhe wrote:
Terracottakitten wrote:So, it IS a fantasy book, and you say it doesn't really matter, but it CAN contribute to someone's perception of how things are supposed to be in real life...


If someone on the younger side is reading it, hopefully their parents are involved enough to discuss some of the larger issues with them. Honestly though, I think most kids who are old enough to be reading this are old enough to determine what is appropriate for a real-life relationship and what isn't. If they can't determine that, then they probably would have been making more than a few bad decisions with or without reading Twilight.

As to whether or not Edward was abusive, I never saw him that way. But I also never really tried to translate their relationship into the real world. When he was watching her sleep, that never bothered me, at least as it applied to that situation in a novel. It's not as though he was a peeping tom who was trying to see her in her underwear, or wanted to harm her in any way. Edward was watching Bella sleep because he was drawn to and fascinated by her. He was trying to understand how he felt about her. I do understand why this bothers some people, but in the context of the novel, I didn't have a problem with it.


Okay, so I don't know HOW many people I've heard say: "OMG, I LOVE Edward! He's so amazing, I TOTALLY wish he were real"... And I've even heard: "I wouldn't mind is Edward gave ME bruises [after reading the 'sex' scene, I'd suppose]", so I really don't think that everyone gets that he's not the greatest male protagonist... And translating it to the real world, Edward is the "bad boy", and Bella is... well... Me, and you, and anyone reading... And the only reason Bella (and me, and you, and anyone reading) is drawn to Edward is because he's mysterious and dangerous, which can be seen as extremely attractive in the "real world", so girls are definitely going to be out there looking for their mysterious Edward (a.k.a the "bad boy", except now "real world Edward" is doing drugs, sleeping around, etc...)

Another thing I'd like to bring up is that you said: ...that never bothered me, at least as it applied to that situation in a novel". Well, things in novels, t.v. shows, and the magazines DO have merit in real life. Take sex for example. All books, t.v. shows, etc are about sex now, putting a lot of pressure on people (both girls and boys) to experience it before they're ready (cause hey, if you're a guy and you're 18, and you haven't had sex, then WOAH, are YOU a loser!), and some shows (Gossip Girl, Smallville, etc... even Cosmo magazine's "How To Please Your Man in the Sack!') are pretty much sending out the message: "hey girls, you better give up your virginity or he's never going to fall for you!" Gah! I don't know HOW many girls at my school are pregnant now because Oops! They didn't know enough about sex, but hey, the t.v. said it was fun, so whatever! But what I'm tryin' to say is that there ARE messages being sent out (concious or not) that the majority of people follow, even if it is from a stupid fantasy book...

And come on, you're saying that it's okay that Edward snuck into Bella's room and watched her sleep because he didn't hurt her? That's like saying it's okay to stalk someone if you're just watching them. How else will they know that you like them, right? I just can't agree with that logic, sorry... And besides, in Midnight Sun he spent the first couple of chapters deciding how to kill Bella, anyway. I don't know, it could be just me, but that sounds kinda like he's going to 'harm' her...


To the OMG i love Edward stuff yes many girls say i roll my eyes a lot of the time! I love Edward i think he is a gentleman and a sweet guy. Edward to me is a good guy the reason he is bad is because he is a Vamp.

AND IT IS A BOOK! A book about a dream guy that is out of our reach. Some it is Edward and some Jacob! Why must we totally tear apart a good thing?

Okay i am semi done with my Rant lol. I know it might be a little snappy and i am sorry no time to edit i must go watch Ghost Whisperer.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amivera » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:00 am

Sorry, this is from pages ago, but I came back and the thread had exploded. (Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist :D )
pubesy wrote: While i DO agree, that this relationship was on the KNIFE EDGE of having the potential to be an abusive, unhealthy relationship for reasons mentioned on your checklist, you have to remember that EVEN IF EDWARD WAS the most loyal, UN-CONTROLLING, character, IT WOULD STILL BE AN UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

She is a human, He is a vampire. He could kill her with the slightest wrong move. Her blood "sings" to him. That was the draw of the books. How could something so unhealthy, ill fated and headed towards disaster be so wrong, but yet so right at the same time?.

I think the unhealthy part was that not only was Edward so dangerous and abusive, but Bella was so open to it. I've read some great vampire books that follow the actual lore very closely and the female characters certainly have more backbone than Bella.

It's not a one-sided thing. Edward is abusive and Bella is accepting.
"Companions of the Night" by Vivian Vande Velde has so many similarities to Twilight (I was going to do a post about it, but I couldn't find a proper forum).

You might be able to say the male vampire in it is abusive, because he threatens her and leads her on and sometimes seduces her. He captures her and threatens to kill her, but she's a little confused, because she finds him so attractive, but he's evil.
The relationship between them throughout the whole book is very confused, and it could certainly be compared to an abusive relationship— him to an abusive boyfriend.
The difference is, though, that the female character is very strong. She has a backbone, she fights against his seduction, she tells herself to remember her family above everything else, whereas Bella is so willing to give that all up to be with her sparkling savior.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby KaseyHeartEdward » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:18 am

"Companions of the Night" by Vivian Vande Velde


IS this a good book? i am always looking for a good read.




Yea i still don't see the abuse in the books, i really don't. I don't see it in Edward and i have tried to see it since many have said he is but i don't. And my mother is a domestic violence counsular. So yea not seeing it. I guess that means im i gonner if i ever get in a relationship. :(

But as i said before we all are different people and read differently!

Off topic Ghost Whisperer was good. Cried a good amount.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amivera » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 am

I think you're smart enough to realize if you're in a bad relationship. :)

Companions of the Night was a really good book! I recommend it, definitely. The characters have so much depth, the plot line is just wonderful. It's not too long— no extra fluff, just a really great story. If you decide to read it, tell me when you finish. I'd love to discuss it with you!

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I used to dislike Bella, but absolutely adored Edward. As time went on, I became more perceptive to the smaller things about Edward. Once you take off those rose-colored glasses (not that you're wearing any, but I know I was), it's easier to see.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby KaseyHeartEdward » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:49 am

Amivera wrote:I think you're smart enough to realize if you're in a bad relationship. :)

Companions of the Night was a really good book! I recommend it, definitely. The characters have so much depth, the plot line is just wonderful. It's not too long— no extra fluff, just a really great story. If you decide to read it, tell me when you finish. I'd love to discuss it with you!

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I used to dislike Bella, but absolutely adored Edward. As time went on, I became more perceptive to the smaller things about Edward. Once you take off those rose-colored glasses (not that you're wearing any, but I know I was), it's easier to see.



Okay i will have to check that book out. But now fluff i don't know? Hm..... Jk ;)


Hey i understand where you coming from and have thought about it i really have. Since many have brought it up. They stalking thing i can see. But the beeing over protective i can see. Even though i guess i am twisted and i thought it was sweet. I saw it as a way he was just trying to get to know her and protect her. How i read the series it that it is a really good story. I mean one can turn anythig into a bad thing. Hell i might have some "rose colored glasses on" But trust me they look HOT. LOL. I see Edward as a good guy and Jake too. Trust me one could find evil bad qualites about him as well. Heck even Emmet and Seth. I love my Twight Story. And i just can't see the "Abuse" in the story. Your not wrong and neither am i. We just have different veiws. And i totally respect them. Next time i read the book i will keep some of your veiws in mind. Will it change my mind? Proably not. But i gave it a chance.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby moon sidhe » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:23 am

KaseyHeartEdward wrote: Your not wrong and neither am i. We just have different veiws. And i totally respect them. Next time i read the book i will keep some of your veiws in mind. Will it change my mind? Proably not. But i gave it a chance.


Nicely said! I agree with this. :)

I agree that it's possible to come away from Twilight with an unrealistic vision of relationships. You are correct, Terracotta, we are constantly inundated by images of sex, and ultra skinny models etc. Then of course there are the heroines in many of the older Disney fairy tales who are weak, frequently rather dumb, and ultimately saved by marriage. All my girlfriends and I were able to safely navigate through those treacherous waters just fine. And while I find it really disheartening that not everyone has family and friends who can support and advise them, I'm not quite sure why we should blame Twilight or the media for that. Are you saying we should censure anything that does not contain a 100% positive message for the sake of young girls who don't have supportive families?
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby pubesy » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:45 am

pubesy wrote: No one would enter a dangerous relationship due to a book alone.


I stand by this. Stephenie Meyer cannot be held completely accountable for girls falling into abusive relationships. That idea is just silly.

Wait... "On the KNIFE EDGE of being abusive"? I think it went WAY passed that when Edward sat in a rocking chair IN HER ROOM ALL NIGHT LONG WATCHING HER before she even KNEW him! ... But you're right about the draw of their relationship, how you wonder if he'll kill her or make out with her. ... But for the 'Edward could be abusive, but instead protects her', I don't agree. If he wanted to protect her, he'd leave her alone entirely. But he's just so selfish that he can't. ... They're each so selfish that they completely destroy the people around them, but they can't realize.


Let's get one thing straight. Bella was never ABUSED by Edward, or vice versa. Hence their relationship was never an ABUSIVE relationship.
HOWEVER
The relationship WAS dangerous. Incredibly so. He was a vampire who was irresistibly drawn to her blood, in which his throat burned to bite her at every second she was with him. He could have killed her so easily at any second. But i Agree with holdingoutforjacob. The thing that made the relationship even more dangerous was Bella's complete trust and security in Edward from the very beginning. Her belief that edward could never and would never hurt her, and the belief that she would rather die trying than be without him. (That is what is most creepy about the watching Bella sleep thing...the fact she did not care)

There is a difference between a dangerous relationship and an abusive one.

However their relationship WAS on the knife edge of being abusive because of the complete imbalance of power. Edward was so much stronger physically, unintentionally controlling, and was incredibly possessive of Bella. Bella was so dazzled and trusting. However, Edward never betrayed bella's trust. He acted like a complete gentleman would (in 1918) towards Bella. He was never intentionally controlling or possessive towards bella, and when he realised HE WAS being controlling towards bella (the whole jacob thing) he backed off, apologized, and gave Bella the freedom she desired. He COULD have hurt bella so many times - but he never did. That is why it is not an abusive relationship.
Edward would have moved heaven and earth to protect bella.
And the honeymoon bruises? that is not abusive....Bella ASKED for a honeymoon. she knew it would be....difficult! and anyway...hasn't anyone heard of BDSM? :lol:

B&E relationship never DESTROYED anyone around them. (and don say it destroyed jacob.....because jacob's hurt was just as much brought on by himself, as by bella.)

Also, I'm not saying all teenage girls are taking these books seriously, but it is a factor in some of their decisions. I mean, if they see their parents acting badly towards one another, and then they also see it so many times in the media, in books, in television, then they might get the impression that this is how relationships are.


The MAJOR factor which will draw an individual into a bad relationship is PREVIOUS experiences of bad relationships. (eg: being raised as a child in an abusive parental relationship, or having already been in one,) as well as economic circumstances, weak (or absent) social groups, alcohol and drug abuse. (Not stephenie meyer's books). Taking Twilight off the shelves won't prevent a bad relationship from occurring.

Edward never acted "bad" towards bella. He was very honest and clear about who he was, and the danger bella CHOSE to place herself in. Bella was ALWAYS given the option of ending her relationship....but she chose not to.

Then of course there are the heroines in many of the older Disney fairy tales who are weak, frequently rather dumb, and ultimately saved by marriage. All my girlfriends and I were able to safely navigate through those treacherous waters just fine.


Agreed!
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby spookybell » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:02 am

I Love Edward Cullen!!!
No one is perfect. But he is beautiful and selflessly selfish. He is a good Guy
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Esme echo » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:35 am

pubsey, you are my hero! Wonderfully stated! I love your discussion about the difference between abusive and dangerous relationships.

Twilight remains a charming flight of fancy for me; I don't understand why people read it and try to cram it into a reality mold. Emotionally confused and morally unprincipled people will sieze anything as justification for misbehavior--but Twilight has less objectionable material in it than most other YA novels! Much, much less than nearly any PG-13 film!

I don't mind if people have a problem with Edward's behavior--he had a problem with his behavior! I do sort of mind when the discussion turns brutal, highly judgmental, crude, or profane. The most valuable discussions to me are those that give specific examples to support impressions and are at least a little charitable.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby pubesy » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:33 am

LOL...i live to serve!
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