Edward Cullen #2

[holdingoutforjacob]

agreed. but, the difference between what edward is doing with bella and what bella was doing with nessie is that bella is a big girl. she can take care of herself. and she needs to be conscious of the world around her, whether it is nice or not, because it is, as jacob says, her life.

i'm not entirely sure it's controlling of edward to want to keep things like that from her, i think he genuinely saw no need for her to know.

[Kachiti]

I have a topic question. it seems interesting enough. i'll be right back -- scratch that. it's a very odd topic but whatever.

I randomly flipped to a page while contemplating rereading breaking dawn, and I’ve come upon this quote.
“Wasn’t shielding her more important than answering her questions?” --bella (refering to Jacob telling renesme about the vampires coming to kill her)
Which brings me back to eclipse and Edward’s sudden overreaction and attempt to hide things from Bella, as usual from bad vampires. That was his point of view, but bella (totally contradicting herself now) thinks she should know everything. What do you guys think?
Was Edward wrong in not telling her. I mean, i get it. Bella has a right to know, because it's also her life in danger. but then Renesmee, poor child, is very well adult and aware, doesn't she have that right as well too?

I don't know about that, while Nessie may act adult like she is still a child and should be protected for as long as possible.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i agree. but on the other side of the coin, it's such a serious situation, shouldn't she understand?? so she can help in any way possible??

[Esme echo]

Great question, malaz! "What's good for the goose is good for the gander?" Even though Renesmee was very intelligent for her age, does that mean she should be treated like an adult? I'm thinking about Bella's statement at the end of BD when she said, "I shifted my weight carefully so that Nessie was never jostled. I was deeply grateful to see her getting a sound sleep. So much weight had been on her tiny shoulders. It was time she got to be a child again--protected and secure. A few more years of childhood."

I suspect that if Renesmee had been older, Edward and Bella would have told her exactly what was going down, but at such a young age, she should still have been protected.

Edward should have told Bella when Alice saw Victoria planning another run at her. Instead, he lied to her and deceived her about the reason he wanted to take her to Florida to see her mother. (Although, in retrospect, it was probably a good thing, as it gave Renee an opportunity to see them together and therefore, to accept their marriage with such pragmatism!) If Bella was afraid, arrangements could have been made that would have made Charlie safe and made her feel secure. This is one occasion in which I really have no defense for Edward's action.

[Amethyst1]

Esme Echo - i defintely agree about Nessie. it's just that, for her, there was no way that she couldn't have known. if they've kept it from her, what would have been her expression in the clearing when 40 some vampires in cloaks are lined up to kill her family, she would proberly have been 10x as frightened, when something catches you off gaurd, it's more scarier, than being in the know. but i agree she's just a baby.
Or when she noticed her family disapearing or leaving to phrase it better (alice, jasper, rose, carlisle, esme, emmett..?) If there was a way that she couldn't have witnessed that or haven't been able to clearly understand what's happening, then i'd reckon that would have been fine for her to be completely unware. but lets face, what normal toddler understands everything? but she is so in sync, almost on the same level as the rest of them. only she's just a baby. poor her.

and i agree about edward with pretty much everyone else.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i think it was regrettable, but necessary that renesmee knew what was going on, at least a little.

edward's actions here, while they are inexcusable, do not bother me. yes, it was wrong. and i would have been mad at him, if it had been me. but here he was CLEARLY doing it only out of love and protection, he was clearly frightened, and it probably WAS best to get her out of the area. it's still wrong, obviously. it just doesn't bother me so much. probably because there was no way it would hurt her, you know?

[Esme echo]

Malaz, you and HOFJ make some good points about Renesmee needing to understand what was happening in the clearing. But we should probably take that discussion to the Renesmee thread.

Meanwhile, do you give any credence to Edward's fantasy that some twisted angel thought up Bella and deliberately placed her in his path? A girl who was a better vampire than a human, who tempted him with her blood and defied his previously-undefiable mind reading skills?

What if Bella had never come to Forks? Would Edward have remained frozen emotionally as well as physically the rest of his existence? Just what was it about Bella that grabbed him so irrevocably?

[Amethyst1]

Meanwhile, do you give any credence to Edward's fantasy that some twisted angel thought up Bella and deliberately placed her in his path? A girl who was a better vampire than a human, who tempted him with her blood and defied his previously-undefiable mind reading skills?

no, actaully i don't. I don't believe in his theory at all.
I think that's what he thought at first though. He's such a pessismist and so critical of himself that he's willing to drive his mind this far. I think he wanted to believe that so bad, because his undeniable thirst and temptation to take her life were so strong that, those first weeks, all that's come to his mind was that Bella Swan was given the worst fate, having her live mingled with a vampire's in his eyes were that bad. and then wait for it, that vampire is inlove with her wants to kill her because her scent was so potent to him.
and i think he kept thinking that all the way through breaking dawn till he got the happy ending. Every time he puts bella in danger (according to him), it's his fault, and to him, such a beautiful girl should not been destined for this.

What if Bella had never come to Forks? Would Edward have remained frozen emotionally as well as physically the rest of his existence? Just what was it about Bella that grabbed him so irrevocably?

Sadly, i'd suspect he would have remained that way. unless, he was destined with someone else other than bella?

That's something i've always pondered, why Bella? What draws him to her?...why couldn't it be me, haha.
according to SM, he was very engrossed(sp) to bella because he couldn't hear her thoughts.
Him having more than the average knowledge of human nature--bella always took him by surprise. She was just fancinating to him. While all the other [students] as far as highschool goes, they were all just caught up in teenger-y stuff and they were very shallow and immature, physically-wise. But bella, him not getting into her mind and her actions and just the way she talks, just really interested him. I think.

and i have this other theory. I don't think it's really Bella that grabbed him. i think it could have been any girl to be honest. Bella, so it happens, was the character that Stephenie chose her to be Edward's interest. -- which honestly, this theory doesn't make any sense, because well, i don't really know. it made sense while i was writing it, it doesn't' any more. oh well. off to bed.

[Kachiti]

Malaz, you and HOFJ make some good points about Renesmee needing to understand what was happening in the clearing. But we should probably take that discussion to the Renesmee thread.

Meanwhile, do you give any credence to Edward's fantasy that some twisted angel thought up Bella and deliberately placed her in his path? A girl who was a better vampire than a human, who tempted him with her blood and defied his previously-undefiable mind reading skills?

I love that part in DHN, it made me laugh.

What if Bella had never come to Forks? Would Edward have remained frozen emotionally as well as physically the rest of his existence? Just what was it about Bella that grabbed him so irrevocably?

I've often wondered that too. I think he would have stayed frozen. He wasn't looking for love, he was complete and happy (so he thought). I think they would have met eventually but then there is the whole Jacob factor when it comes to dealing with faith.
Edward not being able to know what she was thinking, the fact that her "blood was singing to him", and her quiet but determine personality.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i think this is a very hard question to answer. i believe firmly that if bella had never met edward, she would have ended up with jacob. but that makes it very hard to answer the question about edward. i mean, was bella's mind so "private" because she was destined to be a vampire?? because that would indicate that she was ALWAYS meant to be with edward, and jacob never would have come into play. but that doesn't make sense. maybe she would still have had a private mind if edward didn't exist, but it just wouldn't matter?? or maybe, she was always destined to be with edward since vampires existed?

sorry that was more like a bunch of questions than an answer.