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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Mrs. Black » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:49 pm

twilight1909 wrote:Are you going to answer my question about the helmet? :) Accident-prone Bella took quite a few spills on that motorcycle, and Jacob should have suggested a helmet if he was so concerned about her safety. I'm not saying he doesn't care about keeping her safe, of course he does, but that always bothered me.


I honestly didn't see the question, but I was wondering the same thing! Bella got hurt so many times, why didn't they think of a helmet? Also, why didn't Bella suggest wearing one? Was it because of the whole adrenaline-rush-causes-Edward's-voice thing?

Wingtear wrote:Anyone but me wonder what will happen with Sam's pack when he stops phasing? Will they automatically be transferred to Jacob? He is, after all the "true" alpha...

I think all Alpha responsibilities will be transferred to Jacob because even though he turned down the job in the first place, it's still rightfully his. And didn't he rejoin the pack in the end of Breaking Dawn? So he still is the next runner up, since it's supposed to be his job anyway.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby SenorGimp » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:07 pm

Actually, he didn't rejoin the pack, but he did work things out with sam, and they have two packs now, jacob with leah, seth, and i think quil and embry? and sam and the rest, but they work in cahoots now, since the alphas of each respective pack can communicate with each other...
thanks for heeding my request guys (gals, whatever)!
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:28 pm

I think that Jacob faces a HUGE double standard. Just because he didn't kow-tow to edward and bella's relationship. I think it's ridiculous. People make him the "bad guy" just because he was of the opinion (the darned good one) that for Bella to be with this person in such a FINAL way, and to not even consider any other option, or realize she had other options, was ridiculous. Any threat to Edward and Bella is labeled as evil and the worst is assumed about them. People nitpick and find all the things they could have done wrong, but if it's done to Edward we just "don't understand."

Sorry SG. Just had to get that out.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby twilight1909 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:36 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I think that Jacob faces a HUGE double standard. Just because he didn't kow-tow to edward and bella's relationship. I think it's ridiculous. People make him the "bad guy" just because he was of the opinion (the darned good one) that for Bella to be with this person in such a FINAL way, and to not even consider any other option, or realize she had other options, was ridiculous. Any threat to Edward and Bella is labeled as evil and the worst is assumed about them. People nitpick and find all the things they could have done wrong, but if it's done to Edward we just "don't understand."


Jacob is certainly not labeled as evil. People nitpick with Edward quite a bit actually. I've only been debating the aspects of Jacob that I don't like because it's brought up through discussion. I actually began writing on this thread with positive comments.

SG, these things pertain to Jacob's character. We don't have to stop talking about them.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby SenorGimp » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm

No prob '...jacob', that was a great summary, and I'm glad to know there are some jacob defenders out there.

I just think there's so much more to jacob than just his interactions with bella, which is why i'm trying to steer this thread back into a more jacob-oriented discussion.
well put though..

me too, 'twi', in fact i had nothing bad to say, really, on any of the characters until i found this lex, well not as much. it's brought out a dark side of me... :evil: lol
Anyway, I'm going to go find the team jacob thread, and see what's up over there... i didn't even know there was one. = )...
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby twilight1909 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:52 pm

navarre wrote:
twilight1909 wrote:I don't buy that argument. Jacob and Bella go back and forth about who's more beyond their years. They both claim to be mature for their age.

"And what's Edward's motivation to be with her anyways?"...only his passionate never-ending love. Edward explains to Bella at the end of NM that he will never leave her again, unless that's what she wants, because he's not strong enough to do it. He stops drawing the line for what's right and wrong when it comes to his love for her and what's safe for her. Jacob is on the outside looking in but acts like he knows what's best for Bella.

If Jacob should have been with Bella, he would've imprinted on her. I find it odd and irrelevant that people fight for these two to be together. He's meant to be with her child. You know, the one she has with Edward.


Killer points, twilight1909.


Thank you, navarre. :D
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Amethyst1 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:16 pm

The problem with Jacob is the way he handles himself and with things in general. Age is never an excuse. He consciously continues to make the same mistakes repeatedly - that never puts anyone in a good light. And he’s bratty and naïve some more.

I don’t think there’s any problem with Jacob wanting to fight for bella’s life. The way he went about these actions in eclipse were inexcusable. I think if he had a frequent maturity and understanding level in regards to bella’s choice and the way he wanted to fight for her that would have been better actually. It’s sort of like the distinction between shoving and pushing people to be the first on the bus and waiting patiently in line quietly (it’s quite irritating actually. Ugh. Never riding a crowded bus ever again). I am not sure why the excuse "in comparison to Edward..." often comes up. I am not sure if anyone puts reference or comparison between the two when realizing their opinions and judgments. At least, that's never the case with me. Jacob's actions in eclipse stand in stark contrast to Edward's and naturally they do seem that way - but without the comparison, the same thing can be said to his actions without putting edward into consideration.

The way Stephenie Meyer chose to present Jacob didn’t do enough justice to how clear his actions were to herself or how the character “naturally“ is supposed to be without the use of deliberate preferences. I felt as if she was trying too hard to present him in this certain, deliberate way. It just doesn’t work - for me at least. I think this is accentuated especially in eclipse (and in breaking dawn) and in particular in scenes with Edward and or Bella. And I think the major effect that eventuated his character to present himself in the way that he was presented in the books, especially is SM preference for Jacob. She claims she is “Switzerland” - I don’t doubt she doesn’t love Edward, but with the way the books read it leads me to think otherwise.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby TeamJacob! » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35 pm

twilight1909 wrote:Are you going to answer my question about the helmet? :) Accident-prone Bella took quite a few spills on that motorcycle, and Jacob should have suggested a helmet if he was so concerned about her safety. I'm not saying he doesn't care about keeping her safe, of course he does, but that always bothered me.


Ok about the helmet...when Bella goes to ride the first time i think she says something along the lines of 'you could only a 16 yr old boy to..(something about riding dangerous motorbikes secretly). Sorry i was trying to find the exact quote it but i can't.

He is a 16 yr old boy and NOT HER MUM, I don't think it has anything to do with him concerning about her safety but what 16 yr old boy thinks of helmets?? And yes, when Edward bought the bikes he did but he is not exactly a 17 yr old boy is he and do you ever think that he would ever of help Bella make and ride the bikes..NO.


malaz- you say age is no excuse. but then you say he is bratty and naive, these things come with age. Age has everything to do with the maturity levels and hence actions of a person.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby twilight1909 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:00 am

TeamJacob! wrote:He is a 16 yr old boy and NOT HER MUM, I don't think it has anything to do with him concerning about her safety but what 16 yr old boy thinks of helmets?? And yes, when Edward bought the bikes he did but he is not exactly a 17 yr old boy is he and do you ever think that he would ever of help Bella make and ride the bikes..NO.


I don't know why but that made me laugh.
Practically everyone who rides motorcycles thinks about helmets. 16 or not. Especially when the girl you love is crashing everywhere. I know a few people that have had VERY close calls with that. Anyhow, I just wanted to hear a response since Jacob is supposedly all about Bella's safety. It's the most dangerous thing she does with him. Precautions are necessary for this girl, don't you think?
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby TeamJacob! » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:29 am

twilight1909 wrote:
TeamJacob! wrote:He is a 16 yr old boy and NOT HER MUM, I don't think it has anything to do with him concerning about her safety but what 16 yr old boy thinks of helmets?? And yes, when Edward bought the bikes he did but he is not exactly a 17 yr old boy is he and do you ever think that he would ever of help Bella make and ride the bikes..NO.


I don't know why but that made me laugh.
Practically everyone who rides motorcycles thinks about helmets. 16 or not. Especially when the girl you love is crashing everywhere. I know a few people that have had VERY close calls with that. Anyhow, I just wanted to hear a response since Jacob is supposedly all about Bella's safety. It's the most dangerous thing she does with him. Precautions are necessary for this girl, don't you think?


Totally agree with you on this one, Bella does need a lot of precautions but Jacob isn't the type of person to think about safety wear or things like that in general. Nothing to do with him not caring but that's just the way he is. A bit careless even. I'm not saying what he did was right just the possible reason behind his action or lack of.
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