Sam Uley

[Lieziewiezie]

I think Sam is a very 'tortured' person. Think he still struggles with having to go through the changing all by himself. You can't picture how hard it must have been for going through that and not knowing what is happening. A bit the same for Carlisle.
He also struggles with being a packsleader, but he is determined to do it because he feels it's his responsibility. The thing about Leah still tortures him, aswell as what he did to Emily. I think it all makes his feeling for responsibiltiy even greater, but it also makes he ain't handeling things the way he should all the time.

[bite_me]

I never liked Sam. For some reason I always picture him as this sleasy, greasy pony-tailed guy that was definitely not Native American. But my brain always puts weird images like that in my head.

I don't feel sorry for him much at all with the whole Leah and Emily thing. I mean, he found his soulmate, he has someone to be with the rest of his life, Leah doesn't. So all my sympathy has poured into her. And I just can't see him and Leah together. I can only see them like brother and sister.

Or maybe its just because I don't like sleasy, greasy pony-tailed guys.

[PATDPeace]

According to Bella,Sam always semd sort of mean and heartless,like when he FORCED Jacob to attack the Cullen family.But,when you see the other side,like when he was with Emily or Leah,he seemed like a sweet nice boyfriend/fiancee

[spookybell]

have I ever shared how much I do not like Sam. Not from the second I met him. I never liked him.

[ariadnee]

I have to feel sorry for Sam's sense of betrayal, when Bella went back to the Cullens at the end of NM. He was the one who found her in the woods, found her completely broken and lost by Edward, and it made a deep impact on him. Surely his reactions would have been different if he'd had Seth's experience fighting alongside an Edward determined to protect Bella at all costs, as opposed to an Edward so cold as to leave her as he did.

Thanks for listening - Ariadnee

[eclipserox]

I think Sam tries really hard to be a fair and decent leader. When Jacob wanted to attack the Culens because he thought they had changed Bella and Sam said no, I think he was trying to do the right thing for the pack. He knew this would end the treaty unnecessarily and lead to losses on both sides. He-they all-felt badly for Jacob, but Sam was trying to do the right thing for everyone involved.

He was obviously angry and had his ego bruised when Jacob left the pack and took 2 of the wolves with him. A lot of guys wouldn't be able to get beyond that. But, at the end of the book, Sam is willing to work with Jacob.

It's easy to not like Sam. He was originally introduced when Jacob describes him as the leader of a cult or gang. He often appears to be cold and unfriendly. He didn't want Jacob to tell Bella about the wolves. But, Sam's actions show that he is mature, intelligent, and wants the best for the others. He's a decent guy.

[FrighteninLilMonster]

Maybe I'm a little too influenced by Bella's opinion of him, but I just can't bring myself to like Sam.

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for him. It takes a lot to be in control of a pack of werewolves; to go through that first and keep the secret, and train and coach like, 15? other wolves. I appreciate that what he did to Leah wasn't something that he had any choice over; that he must go through agony every time he sees what he did to Emily; and that his actions are the results of what he thinks are the best things for the pack and the people of La Push.

But I just can't bring myself to like him. How Jacob said he was "mad" at Bella for leaving with the Cullens seemed childish (though I suspect part of Jake was mad at Bella, which was why he pointed that out) and not particularly something he should have a say over, so that influenced my opinion. The main things that did though were how he tried to force his orders on Jacob and Seth in Breaking Dawn, despite how badly they didn't want to do it, and how he tried to manipulate poor Leah by using her nickname. That was just underhanded, and cruel.

So yeah, not feeling too much love for Sam, lol.

[ariadnee]

FrighteninLilMonster, I'm going to disagree with you here, but it's not just you. A lot of folks share your opinion, a lot more than share mine, so I guess I'm trying to provide Sam's day in court, so to speak. Sam is not an easy character to like - with the exception of his kindness to Emily, we see him as remote, and occasionally heartless in his leadership of the pack. I suppose I see Sam as being selfless and responsible when he manifests the strength it takes to lead the pack, while Jacob doesn't want to do so. I see Sam as being protective when he tries to protect Bella against an unpredictable Jacob, Victoria, and the Cullens, especially Edward, who he has seen really hurt Bella before. These are qualities we as readers generally love in Edward - why is it so hard to see them as worthy in Sam?

When it came to the leadership show-down with Jacob, well, that was going to happen sooner or later. If you know anything about pack dynamics, it's clear to see that Jacob has been challenging Sam's authority practically from the beginning. Who else in the pack disobeys orders like Jacob? Who turns into a human so the pack won't know what he's up to until it's too late to stop him. No one else. And yet Jacob does it again and again. Sam was going to have to fight this out with Jacob eventually, and it comes to a head when Sam makes a really bad decision. If the show-down had happened when Jacob had wanted to run off to kill the Cullens, and Sam had physically stopped Jacob from doing so using an Alpha command, would the reader reaction been the same? I'm not certain.

I completely agree with you that his emotional manipulation of Leah was completely uncalled for. It was completely unforgivable, especially given circumstances with Leah and Emily. If he hadn't been such a good guy the rest of the series - well, I wouldn't be able to see past that at all. I suppose, as I have forgiven Edward for his big mistake, I generally tend to forgive Sam for his big mistake as well. Forgive, but not forget, of course.

Sorry to be so contrary! -Ariadnee

[FrighteninLilMonster]

Ariadnee, you make some really good points! I completely understand what you mean; he does his best to protect people around him in ways that he thinks he's right. I think I'm just to much of a vampire girl to support that, lol.
I think I always saw Jacob as the rightful Alpha - perhaps yeah, Sam is better suited to it, but I always wanted Jake to take it. I'm glad that they ended up with seperate packs so that they both managed it. I think that would work out well, Sam's responsible and calm nature would nicely balance Jake's rashness. I think that's why I disagree with Sam ordering Jacob around, though you're right, as Alpha, Sam has every right to.

I hadn't thought of it like that - that we love Edward's selflessness and protectiveness and resent it in Sam. I think I just can't see it in the same light because Edward doesn't tend to get his own way as often as Sam; that is, up until Jacob's rebellion, Sam always had the last say. Not that it's something he has much choice over, but I don't like that Sam can force the pack to do things, whereas Edward can't force people to do things he wants them to do. Bella still went ahead and saw Jake when Edward tried to have her babysat, for example. I guess I take it out on Sam that it seems more serious when he gets what he wants.

Don't worry about being contrary lol, I think it's great that people can express their opinions so fully, even if they are different, and do it maturely without arguing over it! I'm not trying to be argumentative when I contradict you, I'm just saying how I feel. I completely see where you're coming from, and you give me a lot of things to consider that I hadn't thought of before!

[ariadnee]

Don't worry about being contrary

I don't think I can help it! But thank you for being understanding - I am really listening to what you are saying as well. It's interesting that you see that Sam seems to get his way more than Edward does. I thought that Edward got his way an awful lot, but maybe I should re-read Eclipse with this in mind and see how much he gets thwarted by Bella, Jacob, his family, etc.

I'm completely Team Edward - so don't read what I'm saying here as Edward bashing, but I've noticed that Edward gets his way using an awful lot of underhanded techniques, such as physical persuasion to get Bella to let him run with her the second time (in Twilight) and manipulating Bella's temper so she'd go with him to Florida in Eclipse. He lies, uses sabbotage (the truck), kidnapping - at one point, he physically restrains Bella from going to Jacob (end of NM.) Sam's method of force is more straightforward than Edward's usual methods, but he stoops to the underhanded in at least the one case (with Leah). Hmmm...the more I think about it, the more I am seeing similarities between the two. The best intentions, both of them, but occasionally not the best methods. I'll have to think about this one some more.

Thanks for listening! -Ariadnee