Edward Cullen #3

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Tessalc » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:26 am

I dunno about his dad being a lawyer but I do know that when Edward's mum made Carlisle promise to save Edward, Carlisle wheeled him down to the morge, so I guess everyone thought he was dead. Carlisle's the one to tell Bella this.
As for Edward's flash backs, I think he still has his memories, like Roaslie, but they're "muddy", as Bella puts it. I guess this is because human senses are nothing compared to vampire senses. I think we'll find out more if Midnight Sun comes out. Has anyone else read the manuscript on the Stephenie Meyer website?
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby vampbball » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:30 am

Tessalc wrote:
vampbball wrote:
velvet_voice wrote:
malaz wrote:
twilight1909 wrote:Does it bother anybody?
It doesn't for me, i don't have much problem with vampires killing humans. hey, it's "their natural food-source" :lol: woah, I becoming more like Aro - ahem, well...i don't blame Edward. I mean eat away, "ME FIRST!!" i certainly wouldn't mind if he was the one delivering it...


It doesn't bother me. The important thing is that he dicided to return and live like Carlisle because he didn't want to be a monster. I have to agree with you, that I don't have a problem with vampires killing humans either but I admire the Cullens for trying to be better. It's amazing how they fight against their nature because they want to be something else, not the monsters they are designed to be.


See, it really bothers me. Not the killing of murderers, but I agree with Edward and Carlisle (and Jacob) that vampires are monsters. Human life is sacred, and predators of humans should be eliminated whenever they pose a threat to human life.

Which is why I was always a little surprised that Bella didn't pick Jacob over Edward. Jacob is committed to protecting human life; Edward isn't. (Neither are the rest of the Cullens; they want to protect their consciences and their way of life.) He loves Bella and so protects her, but he's no anti-vampire vigilante. The Cullens get away with not allowing other vampires to hunt near Forks because it's their territory. But if they were away from home? Would they stop vampire murders? And if they did, what would be the Volturi's response?

All that said, this is why I like Edward, Carlisle, and Alice (and now Eleazar and Carmen), because they truly do mourn the loss of human life, even if they aren't in a position to intercede on a human's behalf against another vampire.


I'm not so sure on this one! Carlisle was committed from day one to protecting human life! I don't think he has ever fed on a human! I can see where you're coming from about the the vampires and covens, but I guess its a bit like a religion! If you were a human-eating vampire, you wouldn't want the Cullen's preaching to you about a different lifestyle, anymore then a Christian would want a Jew preaching to them?!?


Hi Tessalc. I like your analogy; the Cullens do treat their decision to not eat humans like a choice, like choosing a religion. They do not treat it as the same type of moral obligation as not committing murder. For example, while I'm sure you could be friends with someone who was a different religion, could you be friends with a murderer? Having a different belief system and killing people just aren't morally comparable. And yet the Cullens act like they are. But I think they don't really have a choice; if they did try to protect humans from other vampires, they'd be obliterated. But I can't help feel sorry for Bella. Think about it, she's going to spend the rest of her life with people like Peter and Charlotte; by all accounts, they're very nice vampires...who murder people. It seems like it would be depressing and lonely. Not unlike Edward's life before he met Bella.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby revrag » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:00 pm

Good grief, I don't think it is possible to get over Edward. How can anyone resist him?

The kiss in the theater was pretty hot and I think it was handled reasonably. I think that Edward fights himself because of himself, and most of it, I think, is because he doesn't want to hurt Bella in any way, but also because he was frozen in his time with his likes and dislikes, etc. He is good, through and through (I'm even completely overlooking the whole killer of bad guys thing), and having a desire to kiss Bella (as well other intimate things) was also something he'd never experienced before. I think that he wanted to do the right thing and that's why he wanted to marry Bella in the first place, he seems to like things in order because it makes sense to him. It's right, and as Bella thought, he is extremely moral...

I'm a completely happily married woman, going on 12 years now...getting ready to turn 30...blah.

Man oh man though, be still my heart Edward. I can't even describe how much I love this vampire guy...
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:31 pm

vambball - wow. i never thought of that before. it bothers me a little bit with edward, but he did only kill bad people. rosalie only killed for revenge. i don't know that esme has ever killed, and carlisle hasn't. i'm not sure about emmett, but my guess is no, and alice and jasper i bet have. i know jasper has. that'd be awkward, to say the least.

i know it always bothered me that all the vampires we met in BD weren't vegetarians. you'd start to like them and relate to them as characters, and then you'd remember - wait, they eat people!

so i have a question. does Nessie trigger thirst?? do the wolves? probably not, because they smell so bad to vampires. but Nessie??
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby vampbball » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:50 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:vambball - wow. i never thought of that before. it bothers me a little bit with edward, but he did only kill bad people. rosalie only killed for revenge. i don't know that esme has ever killed, and carlisle hasn't. i'm not sure about emmett, but my guess is no, and alice and jasper i bet have. i know jasper has. that'd be awkward, to say the least.

i know it always bothered me that all the vampires we met in BD weren't vegetarians. you'd start to like them and relate to them as characters, and then you'd remember - wait, they eat people!

so i have a question. does Nessie trigger thirst?? do the wolves? probably not, because they smell so bad to vampires. but Nessie??


<laughing> You know, I almost deleted that post b/c it seemed like such a downer. And this is getting off topic, but I do think that Bella will have a happy life. She got what was most important to her.

The partial draft of Midnight Sun really clarified where the respective Cullens stood on protecting human life. Emmett (as we know from Twilight and MS) has killed two people, and he's shrugs it off as "falling off the wagon." Rosalie only killed for revenge, but she advocated killing Bella after Edward saved Bella's life. Why? Because she didn't want to switch schools. Jasper is pretty consistent; he is a vampire, humans are his prey, and he'll do his best to avoid killing them but he can't make any promises. Esme has compassion, but her family comes first. In terms of having "they-would-loathe-themselves-if-they-killed-a-human" principle, only Edward, Carlisle, and Alice pass the test. And now I'd add Bella to that list (after Carlisle, I think she's going to be the most human-friendly. It'd be nice to see what she does with her life.).

We know that Nessie does trigger thirst, but not too badly. Bella struggles a bit when she first meets her in BD, remember? Same for the wolves, but it's masked by the animal smell. (Which wouldn't be too comforting if you're dealing with animal-eating vampires, I'd think.)
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:07 pm

ah thanks. i haven't read the draft yet - i'll do that now.

of all their levels of commitment, jasper's is the only one that bothers me. and rosalie's. i understand esme putting her family first, because that's about protection, not thirst. emmett doesn't seem the type to take anything seriously, so i don't know about him.

i wonder what gave edward such a distaste for it?
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Amethyst1 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:47 pm

vampbball wrote:See, it really bothers me. Not the killing of murderers, but I agree with Edward and Carlisle (and Jacob) that vampires are monsters. Human life is sacred, and predators of humans should be eliminated whenever they pose a threat to human life.
Which is why I was always a little surprised that Bella didn't pick Jacob over Edward. Jacob is committed to protecting human life; Edward isn't. (Neither are the rest of the Cullens; they want to protect their consciences and their way of life.) He loves Bella and so protects her, but he's no anti-vampire vigilante. The Cullens get away with not allowing other vampires to hunt near Forks because it's their territory. But if they were away from home? Would they stop vampire murders? And if they did, what would be the Volturi's response?
All that said, this is why I like Edward, Carlisle, and Alice (and now Eleazar and Carmen), because they truly do mourn the loss of human life, even if they aren't in a position to intercede on a human's behalf against another vampire.

Do you think the same towards animals?

I don’t understand—I mean, your opinion is yours—but I don’t understand how you can apply the word “monster” to vampires and especially the Cullens. What is a monster specifically? Surely, they can be monsters in the sense of what their physical form and abilities are, what they are capable of. But their feeding habits? Their natural food source, something they can not live without…that they need to survive, whatever it is. That’s not monstrous. Humans are monsters too, worst than vampires, in my opinion. (Current affairs anyone?)
And I agree with Tessalc, it’s sort of like religion. I mean, they can tell them about their way of life and how they live, but to me, it’s really out of line to try to stop someone from living naturally (haha), and I am talking about the killing humans.
As for Edward, holdingoutforjacob, well…he doesn’t want to be a monster, I am at school and I have to leave soon, so I hope I can elaborate later. And as for Nessie, bella said, her smell was balanced, it was tempting but not human tempting. Because there was enough of the vampire smell to even out the human smell. And the wolves, well, they stink pretty bad, at least to vampires, so they’re not very appealing.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:32 pm

i can see how they'd be monsters. not the cullens, really, they are more like former monsters (SOME of them i.e. Japser) but the other vampires who eat people - how can you not understand that malaz??
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby E&BForever » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:39 pm

Tessalc wrote:I dunno about his dad being a lawyer but I do know that when Edward's mum made Carlisle promise to save Edward, Carlisle wheeled him down to the morge, so I guess everyone thought he was dead. Carlisle's the one to tell Bella this.
As for Edward's flash backs, I think he still has his memories, like Roaslie, but they're "muddy", as Bella puts it. I guess this is because human senses are nothing compared to vampire senses. I think we'll find out more if Midnight Sun comes out. Has anyone else read the manuscript on the Stephenie Meyer website?

I read that on the lexicon blog. I thought it was something like his parents begging Carlisle to save him. With the memories I think it could be something like a certain event to causes him to have a flash of memory or something.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Esme echo » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:44 pm

I think the vampires are or are not monsters issue is in some ways reflective of whether you feel vampires and humans are or are not close to the same species. If vampires and humans are not the same species--no closer than a house cat to a lion--the vampire instinct to hunt his natural food source makes more sense, even if it's no less acceptable to humans! Vampball, I would diagram it this way:

vampire + eats humans = natural and normal
vampire + eats animals instead of humans = enlightened
humans + eats animals = natural and normal
humans + eats things without a face = enlightened

I wouldn't try to persuade another human to become a vegetarian on moral principle, but if I were a vegetarian I might try to "enlighten" a friend with respect to my choice--much the same as Carlisle tries to show other vampires options in their feeding habits.

I think malaz has a valid point that many humans prey on other humans; we truly have a lot of human monsters on this earth. While that wouldn't excuse a vampire feeding on humans from our perspective, what does it say about giving human destroyers a buy through plea bargaining or time-off-for-good-behavior?

I think--in the end--it's all about rising above your basic instincts and doing what's right, not just what you want. Edward frequently called himself and other vampires monsters. Don't you think he felt that way because he was trying to live an enlightened life-style and his base impulses were to revert to a "natural" vampire life instead? He resented the constant temptation of human blood.
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