Edward Cullen #3

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby SenorGimp » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 pm

and what a wedding night it was!
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:22 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: . That's actually true. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:12 pm

malaz wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Malaz, Bella says that.
"Pressure on my fingers. It was harder not to answer this voice, but I stayed paralyzed. I knew that the pain in his voice now was nothing compared to what it could be. Right now he only feared that I was suffering." (BD, p 380)

hmmm. . . you gotta admit though, you overstated it when you mentioned the "burning man" is what would be his reaction if he knew the extent of Bella's pain. (besides i don't find bella to be so reliable considering eclipse. . .)

Here’s the thing though - to me - I don’t think he would have been the burning man, because there’s a huge difference of her being on her death bed (aka seeing her ceasing away) and her going through a transformation (seeing her in pain BUT knowing it will get better) while both circumstances splinter his heart again and again into a thousand different shards encompassing his hurt. The difference still remains. He is sorry he caused her pain. He is sorry to have to put her through that. He is sorry that she had to ever experience that. He is sorry for everything but his self-loathing and agonized falter for her pain don’t signify a slight importance in his eyes against seeing HER get better and knowing that SHE will get better. If she was never going to get better, then I agree. . . The burning man is what would have become of him.


But remember, Malaz, that until just a few minutes before she finally wakes up, Edward believes he was too late, and she could quite possibly die. "Maybe...Carlisle, maybe I was too late." "But she's so still. I must have done something wrong." Until the moment when Alice assures him, "It won't be long now," I think he desperately fears that she won't get better. At the moment, I was talking about, I think he very well could have been the burning man.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby navarre » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:32 pm

Edward certainly was is various stages of 'the burning man' until Bella became a vampire, if you think about it.
What I mean, is that from the moment she became pregnant until Edward turned her he was the burning man on different levels.

When he held her for the first time after she woke up, it was said he laughed from relief that it was finally over - the hurt, the fear, everything. (I'm paraphrasing here). Finally.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Amethyst1 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:41 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:. . . I think he desperately fears that she won't get better. At the moment, I was talking about, I think he very well could have been the burning man.

. . . I am just saying that it’s impossible to know if he was about to become a burning man or not. I reread that passage numerous times and it seems Edward is one moment in fear of losing her, then Carlisle assures him and he is perfectly hopeful, then later with Alice and he is extremely joyful because bella will be alright. But I am just looking at the whole here, of coarse if we were to look closely in the first quote you mentioned and analyze it, it would appear that Edward would have crumpled to his knees of fear but his thoughts are changing so quickly it’s hard to assume exactly what would become of him without Edward contradicting our assumption a minute later.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby hrtwilight » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:47 pm

I don't know if this has already been discussed but when I re-read BD I felt myself wanting more of a reaction from Edward as far as the fact that he was going to be a father. I am specifically talking about after he heard Reneesme's thoughts and new that she loved Bella. Do you think he felt the joy/anxiety/nervousness/happiness of Wow I'm going to be a Father? Do you think that after Jacob left and went to the park that he and Bella had a conversation about the fact that they had created this baby together and that they were going to be parents? Also, it kind of bothered me that he never told Bella that she was right, that she was right to have fought so hard for Reneesme. Lastly, I also found it odd that at the end, when Bella tells Jacob to take Reneesme once the fighting starts that when Edward says goodbye to Reneesme he doesn't tell her that he loves her.
I know that's a lot of questions, however in my attempt to have a deeper understanding of Edward I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby eclipserox » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:55 pm

hrtwilight wrote:I don't know if this has already been discussed but when I re-read BD I felt myself wanting more of a reaction from Edward as far as the fact that he was going to be a father. I am specifically talking about after he heard Reneesme's thoughts and new that she loved Bella. Do you think he felt the joy/anxiety/nervousness/happiness of Wow I'm going to be a Father? Do you think that after Jacob left and went to the park that he and Bella had a conversation about the fact that they had created this baby together and that they were going to be parents? Also, it kind of bothered me that he never told Bella that she was right, that she was right to have fought so hard for Reneesme. Lastly, I also found it odd that at the end, when Bella tells Jacob to take Reneesme once the fighting starts that when Edward says goodbye to Reneesme he doesn't tell her that he loves her.
I know that's a lot of questions, however in my attempt to have a deeper understanding of Edward I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.


Initially, when Edward found out Bella might be pregnant, he:
a. Was completely shocked because neither he nor Carlisle believed it possible
b. Immediately thought the worst because Edward was always pessimistic, believed he was a monster and would have created a monster, not a baby, and thought the "baby" was already making Bella sick (nauseated) and would likely kill her.
Nothing about his initial reaction surprised me. It was classic Edward.

At the moment when Edward hears Bella's thoughts, I was left with the impression that his entire point of view changed. I haven't read BD for awhile, so I might be mistaken about some details. But, I think it was at that moment that he started thinking of Renesmee as a baby, rather than a monster. He started referring to her as a baby without acting disgusted. He stopped wanting to remove the baby from Bella, and started concocting plans to safely deliver the baby. He stopped believing the baby would definitely kill Bella, and started thinking they could both survive. Jacob made a comment to the effect of: Edward loved the baby because it loved Bella. He couldn't hate anything that loved Bella.

I think that is true. Edward started loving his baby after he heard it's thoughts and started planning on becoming a father. I thought he greatly enjoyed listening to Renesmee's thoughts and seeing how intelligent she was. He bragged about her, like most parents do their young children. For me, Edward's change of heart and positive feelings toward Renesmee were evident; however, I'm sure we would have seen much more of his feelings if Bella or Edward had been narrating instead of Jacob.

When Bella woke up and started telling the story again, she said everyone fell in love with Renesmee and Edward adored her. I thought Edward's Christmas gift for her was very sweet. Music was very special to him, and he gave her a music player loaded with songs he picked out especially for her. That is the type of thoughtful gift that shows how much Edward cared for Renesmee. In addition to loving her as his only child, he also finally saw that he was not a monster BECAUSE of Renesmee. He will always appreciate her for showing him that about himself.

I don't think Edward needed to admit that he was wrong and Bella was right about fighting to keep Renesmee. I think actions speak louder than words, and Edward was a good father and loving husband. They were both clearly delighted that Renesmee had survived. Bella is not the type of person who would have needed an apology or said "I told you so." The important thing was that Renesmee was happy and healthy. Bella understood that Edward only wanted to get rid of Renesmee because he thought it would save Bella. She also understood that Edward saw himself as a monster and did not think their baby could be anything but a monster.

When Bella told Jacob to take Renesmee, I again thought it was obvious how much Edward loved Renesmee. If I remember correctly, SM described his expression as pained. He was in such pain at the thought that he would not see his daughter again. But, there were also so many other things going on with all of the people and the Volturi. I'm sure Edward knew he couldn't have a long goodbye because the Volturi might notice and stop Jacob from saving his daughter. I thought it was very touching that he called Jacob his son. It showed that Renesmee's happiness was very important to him, and he accepted Jacob as part of the family for Renesmee's sake.

You also have to consider that toward the end of the fight, the only problem the Volturi still had was that they didn't know how Renesmee would grow up and whether she would cause problems for the vampire world. If Edward did not love Renesmee and just wanted to be happy with Bella, he could have said: OK, take Renesmee. He never would have said that. He was willing to fight and die for his daughter because he loved her more than anything. He was willing to sacrifice Bella in the fight if it meant saving Renesmee. He had never been willing to sacrifice Bella before. At this point, Renesmee was the person he loved most and would do anything to protect
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Lunna-san » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:09 pm

hrtwilight wrote:I don't know if this has already been discussed but when I re-read BD I felt myself wanting more of a reaction from Edward as far as the fact that he was going to be a father. I am specifically talking about after he heard Reneesme's thoughts and new that she loved Bella. Do you think he felt the joy/anxiety/nervousness/happiness of Wow I'm going to be a Father? Do you think that after Jacob left and went to the park that he and Bella had a conversation about the fact that they had created this baby together and that they were going to be parents? Also, it kind of bothered me that he never told Bella that she was right, that she was right to have fought so hard for Reneesme. Lastly, I also found it odd that at the end, when Bella tells Jacob to take Reneesme once the fighting starts that when Edward says goodbye to Reneesme he doesn't tell her that he loves her.
I know that's a lot of questions, however in my attempt to have a deeper understanding of Edward I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.


Well, as usual, eclipserox wrote a kicking butt reply. And there is no much more than I, with my poor English can add. I'll do my best.

Just because we didn't see a jumping Edward it doesn't mean he wasn't happy. I think he was in shock, completely stunning, because he spent a month expecting the worse and then it happened a thing he never dared to dream about. A child. His and Bella's child. I think his head was like a kaleidoscope of emotions. But all he could do was sit and listen to his daughter thoughts.

Bella didn't need to start that dance of "I told you so". Renesmee wasn't a bet. Bella kept Renesmee because of Edward, so the fact Edward was finally free of his constant restrain and she could finally prove that lovely child was his daughter, wow, what else can you say? I think just the fact she could see his smile, the deep adoration Edward feels for his daughter is all she needs. So, the fact Bella was right is not about making a point. It's about to give Edward the life he deserves, because he is a great person and she loves his no matter what.

Seriously, after all they passed, do you think they still have to say "I love you"?
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby hrtwilight » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:18 pm

You bring up some good points and I like your perspective. However, here are my thoughts. Yes, after Edward hears Reneesme's thoughts for the first time he starts to call her a baby and starts to plan for the delivery. What I am saying though is that there is a moment when you first realize that you're going to be a parent that completely overwhelms you. Obviously he could not have this moment initially b/c of the circumstances and I realize that. However, it would have been nice to hear him as he accepted this and felt all of those feelings that one does when you realize that you're going to be a parent. I know that obviously his main concern is Bella's well being I just wondered if when Jacob was gone if they had that kind of a conversation. It would have been nice to see him experience that elated happiness that one goes through when they realize that they are bringing a new life into this world.
Secondly, I was not meaning that he should tell Bella that she was right so that she could say I told you so. Its just that he fought her so hard on the pregnancy (I completely understand why he did) that it would have been nice for him to say you know it was worth it, all of the pain all of the sacrifice it was worth it. And for him to acknowledge that her "Mother's intuition and instant protectiveness" were correct. I love Edward, please do not get me wrong but I feel (I know that I'm the minority) that she was right to have fought so hard for her baby and the fact that everything did work out the way she said it would is significant to me. I guess I just wanted him to admit that he was wrong, just to her, b/c they both went through so much pain (mentally and physically) during her pregnancy.
As far as his love for Reneesme goes, I am absolutely not doubting it and I most definately agree on your thoughts about the MP3 player. I just can't imagine a Father who is saying goodbye to his daughter of all people to not say I love you when he is saying goodbye. Bella was able to tell her quietly. I guess really when I think about it, in book 3 of BD I do not feel like I know Edward's feelings/thoughts as much as other books/times. I don't feel like I have a clear grasp on what his thoughts/feelings are during this time. I feel that the whole "Daddy Daughter bond" was lacking. Not that it wasn't there, maybe just that we didn't get to see it. Your point about the fact that he was willing for both he and Bella to die to fight for her is significant. But wasn't there no other way, it wasn't as if he Bella and Reneesme could have escaped, not with Dimitiri plus he would never leave the rest of his family to fight for him.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:58 pm

Absolutely fantastic, EclipseRox. I couldn't have said it any better myself. I particularly love your thoughts about the MP3 player, and about his words to Jake during the goodbyes. I agree wholeheartedly that Edward's words to Jacob were a very dignificant sign of just how much he loves Renesmee. Even after the battle, when he talks about how impressed he is with Jacob and his thoughts, he is aware now of just how important Jacob is to Nessie, and her happiness means so much.

Hrtwilight, I would add two quick thoughts to the above, as far as Edward's goodbye with Renesmee. First is to encourage you to remember, too, that at the time, Edward is still trying to command this rebellion, of sorts. Having spent time around military men my whole life, that mindset tends to take over. Remember, though he was never in the military officially, Edward was desperate, before he was turned, to join the army and fight in WWI. That, in addition to his time with Jasper and talking strategy, combine to give him that mindset. Once that instinct kicks in, it is hard to pull yourself completely from it. And, in this case, the stakes were so high that I would imagine he didn't really feel safe doing so.
But, more importantly, Renesmee preferred to communicate silently, rather than speaking. I know that she could not read others thoughts as Edward could. But, I always imagined that, in that moment when Edward kisses her forehead and cheeks, she is telling him fervently how much she loves him. And, he is telling her in a different way, a quieter yet so much more powerful way.
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