Bella Swan Cullen #2

[holdingoutforjacob]

Because it couldn't possibly be well intentioned sarcasm...

It could, just as I'm going to take that as well intentioned sarcasm. But it could just as easily be taken and not-so-well-intentioned sarcasm. Sarcasm in general is a dangerous thing with people you don't actually know.

I don't think I was referring to your original comment though... however, as I don't remember what inspired me to write that, I will have to get back to you about what I WAS talking about.

[Jazz Girl]

Hey you guys, I was wondering if you could help me out...

In my opinion, I think Bella is a very needy, obsessive, and selfish character.. But I feel like those qualities do not really become clear until New Moon.. Do any of you guys have concrete Twilight examples that display these traits?? I mean I know her entire obsession with Edward throughout the book shows these.. But I'm looking to narrow it down to specific moments.. Got any??

I'd much appreciate your feedback!

Well, seeing as how I don't really see Bella as any of those things, I am afraid I can't really help.

Really? So how do you see Bella exactly then...?

I actually see Bella as an intelligent, fairly strong and selfless young woman who loves the people in her life, particularly Edward, intensely. As Ringswraith pointed out, she goes through a rough period in New Moon, when her entire world goes dark. But, she deals with it and starts to move through it. And, in the end, it turns out to be Bella who is the strongest of all.

[vampirenerd]

I agree with JG, the NM episode makes her seem needy and obsessive because she doesn't seem to be able to function without him. But realizing that the love of her life, someone she never thought she was good enough for to begin with, has left her and told her he didn't love her, it makes how she reacts make sense. Other than that period I also don't see her as needy or obsessive.

I also agree with rings, I think that Edward leaving is what made her become needy and obsessive. Until then, she had no reason to be.

[holdingoutforjacob]

Hey you guys, I was wondering if you could help me out...

In my opinion, I think Bella is a very needy, obsessive, and selfish character.. But I feel like those qualities do not really become clear until New Moon.. Do any of you guys have concrete Twilight examples that display these traits?? I mean I know her entire obsession with Edward throughout the book shows these.. But I'm looking to narrow it down to specific moments.. Got any??

I'd much appreciate your feedback!

Oh we're gonna be friends....

Okay. So here's my theory.

Bella didn't really display these traits in Twilight, because she was busy investing WAY too much of herself in an unstable relationship to the point of it not being healthy. Once she had dumped her whole "self" into it, which was pretty simple because she doesn't really have much sense of self to begin with, and Edward left, she fell apart. Rather than finding her inner strength and getting through it on her own, she relies on other, stronger characters to move her along until Edward comes back, and then when he gets back, she's so scared of having to be by herself again that she becomes completely co-dependent.

While it is true that she shows some strength throughout the series she has to be babied and pushed and coddled so much along the way that she's not even being that strong in the end. And I have no idea what makes her end up being the strongest at all.... would you care to explain that to me Jazz Girll?

[DesiringJB]

I've been thinking about this question, and your phrasing makes me wonder. You said these qualities do not really become clear until New Moon. Is it possible that they actually surfaced in NM as a result of Edward's departure?

No, I don't think so. I don't think once Edward left, Bella suddenly became selfish, obsessive, needy, etc... I think they became more apparent in New Moon after Edward left because Edward's absense put Bella in the spotlight by herself.. Her weakness, or addiction to Edward, was suddenly very very clear.

But the obsessive relationship with Edward..The needy clingy Bella..The selfish Bella was already taking shape in Twilight. Her obsession with Edward led her to being needy and selfish. Originally, I think Bella was a fairly independent strong woman. However, she let Edward have too much of a hold over her.. She became weaker and unable to stand on her own two feet. This, I think, already is true halfway through Twilight, but I think the reader is just less aware of it.. New Moon makes it startingly clear.

I mean Bella herself said in Twilight "I couldn’t allow him to have this level of influence over me. It was pathetic. More than pathetic, it was unhealthy." She was aware of unwise fascination with Edward, but she didn't fight it. She gave in. "There was nothing more terrifying to me, more excruciating, than the thought of turning away from him. It was an impossibility." She truly COULD have walked away, like Edward eventually did. However, Bella was too weak, too selfish, to actually do it.

[ringswraith]

I see differently. I see the beginnings of a relationship such that hasn't been seen before.

I believe that Bella's acting rather normally (as much as "normal" is defined in this series) for someone who has never been in love. Prior to Edward, she never needed anyone else (as a partner). In fact, she took care of her parents, was the mature one with regards to Renee...

Then along comes Edward, and she falls head over heels for him. It's natural to want to be with your partner all the time, to think about them all the time- events that you could call being selfish, needy, or obsessive, but it depends on your point of view. When Bella mentions that line about it being "unhealthy," she had no prior experience to compare it to. She just thought it was absurd that he had such influence on her.

Then we come to New Moon, and Edward removes himself from her world. Suddenly there is a hole left behind, a hole that needs to be filled, but she's not sure what to fill it with. Her actions, to me, are those of a brokenhearted person magnified many times over.

[DesiringJB]

Well, I think thats partly true.. Many young girls in love do act like Bella, but I think that's the problem with too many high school relationships these days. They move waaayyy to fast and are taken too serious too soon. Her relationship with Edward becomes her life.. I don't care if its young love. I never find a relationship like Edward and Bella's a heathly or acceptable thing. Relationships need balance.. Bella couldn't find that with Edward.

And yes, she is heartbroken in NM, but does that excuse her endless months of being a zombie? No, it doesn't. What makes Bella's heartbreak so much more devasting than anyone elses? Everyone experiences heartache, but they learn to move on.. To find happiness in the other aspects of their life. Bella just became an empty shell.. It was weak.. It was selfish for her to act like she had nothing else, or no one, to live for.. She was 18. She had her whole life ahead of her.. But she cant seem to see or feel anything but Edwards absence.. She only starts to heal when she becomes entirely dependent on Jacob. She never learned to stand on her own two feet.. Bella is the epitome of needy.

[ringswraith]

You can't generalize her experience because you can't honestly say that everyone who's experienced heartbreak, learned to move on; that's a fallacy of hasty generalization.

Bella's experience is just one way of dealing with a situation- one that is exacerbated by the supernatural at that. I don't find anything weak in Bella's attempt to live a routine life; had she been truly weak, she would never have recovered from that day in the forest and likely ended up on medication or something like that. Nor do I see anything selfish in her actions- she kept up her appearances so that others wouldn't worry about her, and only at night, in her bed, did she break down.

I suppose we're at opposite ends of the teeter-totter here, DesiringJB.

[Jazz Girl]

Well, we are all allowed to read and interpret the story and characters differently. Where HofJ and Desiring JB see a needy and obsessive girl, I see a young woman in an intense love affair that is beyond anything she has ever experienced before. I see a young woman who is tested and comes out of it much stronger and with more in her life than she ever thought possible.

While it is true that she shows some strength throughout the series she has to be babied and pushed and coddled so much along the way that she's not even being that strong in the end. And I have no idea what makes her end up being the strongest at all.... would you care to explain that to me Jazz Girll?

Well, the way I read Breaking Dawn, it is Bella who protects and brings Renesmee into the world, reconciles the wolves & Cullens, ensures the safety of her daughter and Jacob, making all of the arrangements and covering all the bases to ensure a safe getaway, and protects every member of the family and witness party, evening the playing field against the Volturi, paving the way for the final revelations.

[vampirenerd]

I agree that you can't say that her zombie like state was not normal. Not everyone who loses the one they love learn to move on. In my own life I know of someone who lost the one they loved and had to resort to medicine to make it through. I'm not saying that their relationship was healthy, becoming that dependent on someone is bound to cause problems if the relationship doesn't work out. At the same time, I agree with Rings. Bella never had anyone that she was dependent on. She took care of everyone in her life and was strong for them. With Edward she was able to let herself be cared for instead of the other way around. She invested so much into her relationship because it was the first time she had been in love, the first time she had ever needed someone. Maybe it wasn't healthy at her age, but I personally don't see that age has anything to do with it. If it's your soulmate what does age matter? A major part of her life was taken away from her and it was only a natural phase that she grieve for that missing part of her. I do commend her effort to try to keep it from everyone else so as not to hurt them, even though it didn't really work seeing as how Charlie noticed that something was wrong.