Bella Swan Cullen #2

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby navarre » Wed May 20, 2009 1:44 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:HofJ~ The reason I put those comments in my post is that you seem to go back and forth on a number of things when it suits your purposes. But, when others do it, you hiss and moan and raise high heaven about it because they are calling you out on your behavior. You hissed and moaned because you thought a previous post of mine presented my opinion as fact. So, I prefaced my next post by saying that the post was entirely my opinion, just to clarify lest I offend someone. And, your response is to call it dramatics and act all wounded. Hence the comment about wanting people to clarify things and then complaining when they do. And, yes, you regularly tell people that they are not entitled to their opinion. You've been called out on it many times by many different people, but you pretty much choose to ignore it. That's your choice.

As for my psychology degree, I'm sorry if I am able to bring to bear understanding and background that you don't have. I worked hard to gain it, and it does color my point of view and give me a certain background to work from when looking at things like the emotional healthiness of relationships. It is what I do. And, I notice on the Jacob thread that you aren't opposed to citing your own psychological sources when it suits your own purpose. The point to all of this; I am not automatically being condescending or putting myself out there as an authority just because, as a 31 year old adult, I have quite naturally experienced a few more things than you, or earned some additional understanding. You have some amazing insights into these characters, and some very interesting opinions. I really enjoy reading most of your posts. But, you really have to get past this idea that everyone disagrees with you because of your age, and that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong and just doesn't understand the text the way you do. We are all here to share our opinions on these stories that we love so much.

And, remember, if you put something out on the board rather than in a pm, it's out there for everyone to comment on regardless of the subject. Amethyst was mearly trying to provide comment on what you posted for everyone to read. If you don't want Amethyst's input, don't put it on the thread.

We now return to our regularly scheduled debate about the character of Bella Swan Cullen~

holdingoutforjacob wrote:^^ and that, in and of itself, worries me.

The fact that she put so much of herself into that relationship SO FAST is unhealthy. She is seventeen!! This is her first EVER relationship! She's known the guy for a few months!

That investing your entire self into such a new and unsteady relationship, and then barely being able to function for weeks rather than getting your Vulgar language is ugly together and trying to rebuild your life is being touted as strength is exactly what leads girls to relationships that end up failing. Because these principles DON'T WORK in real life. Okay, maybe in like, one in a million cases. but otherwise, none.


I don't necessarily agree here, HofJ. Dismissing the health of the relationship just because it develops quickly is unfair, in my opinion. First and foremost, I personally believe that it is possible, even in our cynical society and screwed up reality, that it is possible to meet the person you are meant to be with and just know. Not love at first sight. But, it is possible to meet someone and just have an instant connection. You are immediatly able to bypass all the bullcrap and posturing and games that typically accompany the first few weeks or months of a new relationship. You are able to move into that time of getting to know and learning to love. And, that's what I see happening in Bella & Edward's case.

Yes, Bella is 17. So? Because she's only 17, she can't know her own heart and mind? She can't understand what she wants? She hasn't earned the right to the respect of her choices in life because she hasn't reached some arbitrarily decided upon age of consent or understanding? I would think you, of all people, who have posted openly on these boards about how you hate people being condescended to or have their opinions dismissed because of their age, might be a little more understanding, at least where this factor is concerned.

Yes, it is her first relationship. Again, so? Not everyone is born to play the field. When you find the person you are meant to be with, it doesn't matter if it is your first, fifty-first or one hundred and first relationship. You grab that person and you hold on.

In the end, as has been stated on this and many other threads, the relationship between Bella & Edward is part of a fantasy story. There are too many mystical elements involved to be able to apply the principles of their relationship to our reality. Do I think there are some qualities or things that people can look to as examples of things to look for or to strive for? In my opinion, yes. But, that being said, so what if a young woman does try and the relationship fails. Relationships work and fail everyday. That's how we learn what we want and don't want, what's good for us and what's not. That's a part of the process. I myself did meet my husband at 17 and was ready to marry him at 18. We didn't marry until I was 21 because I wanted to complete university. We've been together 13 years and married almost 10. And, yes, I met him and I knew, almost instantly, that I wanted to be with him. So, I can identify in a lot of ways with Bella. When he was deployed, my life ended for a time. Even though I knew he was coming home, a part of me had to accept that he might not. And, a part of me curled up and died. I actually laugh with my husband about how spot on Bella's reaction is in New Moon. I used to do exactly the same thing she does. I walked around constantly with my arms wrapped around me trying to hold myself together. And, every day I got out of bed and went through the motions of being alive because I needed to do that for the people in my life. The effort that took...the sheer will to pretend to be alive....there aren't words to describe that. Bella loves Edward. Edward is Bella's life, just as she is Edward's. It is what it is, whether we choose to understand or not.



Bingo...and well stated.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Wed May 20, 2009 3:49 pm

Is Bella and Edward's relationship healthy? Hm...that's something to ponder. I think might be a little hypocritical in this situation. I mean yes, she didn't know him long, and she put lot of herself in the relationship, but so did Edward. They both were extremely hurt when he left. He didn't have to. But he felt it was necessary, because he felt like he was depriving her of a life. He just as much went into a state of depression like Bella did. But at least Bella had Jacob as company and someone to help her. Edward didn't. But the point of matter is whether it's healthy or not. I mean if two people love each other THAT much, (which is an astounding result, it's rare to see people so love in with each other these days, and they stay together, like watching my parents who've been married almost 20 years.) it doesn't matter whether the relationship is healthy. It may or not be, but I do know this, if they can't live without each other, and love each other so much, something went right.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Dovrebanen » Wed May 20, 2009 5:04 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Is Bella and Edward's relationship healthy? Hm...that's something to ponder. I think might be a little hypocritical in this situation. I mean yes, she didn't know him long, and she put lot of herself in the relationship, but so did Edward. They both were extremely hurt when he left. He didn't have to. But he felt it was necessary, because he felt like he was depriving her of a life. He just as much went into a state of depression like Bella did. But at least Bella had Jacob as company and someone to help her. Edward didn't. But the point of matter is whether it's healthy or not. I mean if two people love each other THAT much, (which is an astounding result, it's rare to see people so love in with each other these days, and they stay together, like watching my parents who've been married almost 20 years.) it doesn't matter whether the relationship is healthy. It may or not be, but I do know this, if they can't live without each other, and love each other so much, something went right.

Mrs. Edward_Cullen: May I just say that it's such a shame that you've been asking more questions than answering them for a while, because you are so insightful! Not that your questions aren't good, but your answers are very good as well :)
I agree with what you said here. Edward said that he was even worse off than Bella when they were apart. At least Bella made an effort to get out of bed every day and go to school and hang out with Jacob. Edward did nothing. He couldn't even stand to be around his family, probably because of all the happy couples and that he didn't want to bring them down by being in such a bad mood all the time. I think that he had to leave in order to accept his relationship with Bella eventually. I don't think he could have lived with himself if he hadn't tried to leave her, because her humanity and well-being was so important to him, so he had to give it a shot. And he would willingly sacrifice his own happiness for that. And equally, Bella was willing to give her life to save him from the Volturi or die with him. So they both had a lot invested in the relationship, like you said.

I love it when you say that it doesn't matter if it's healthy. With that kind of love, it just "is". And it's right for the two people in question. Edward and Bella found something very special in the other person, and they share a love that is really beyond everything. So healthy or not, it's right for the two of them. And again, it's not like they don't have other people in their lives as well. Edward was used to not bonding with anybody, but he was very close to his family. Bella still had some friends at school, Jacob, Charlie and Renee. The point is just that they are most important to each other, and I for one think that is very common in couples, and does not qualify to call it unhealthy.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu May 21, 2009 2:25 am

Is Bella and Edward's relationship healthy? For them it works. 8-)

As I stated earlier I think that other young people might take this too far. I had a friend send me these you tube documentaries. Please enter carefully they are a bit disturbing to say the least. They show an underground movement that takes thing a bit over the top. It got me to thinking; can this love story lead people to places like the one’s in video’s? Can you see where I might think that it can happen? What can we do to help prevent such things? :shock:

Again these are a bit disturbing. :evil:

Vampyres - When reality goes beyond fiction Part 1 - There are 10 or
11 of these segments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHdVZ3ItGE

Vampire Interview - disturbingly good RP or
someone who is one of the nuts in the other link - he spouts some of
their ritualistic mumbo jumbo (2 parts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oi2UQ88wUA
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby amethyst » Fri May 22, 2009 8:08 pm

The Dark Knight -- I don’t understand why such a thing would occur. I started reading the Twilight series sometime in 2006. I was 11-12 years old (I am almost 16 now) and in the 7th grade. I was little bit obsessive. Maybe a little bit impressionable. In the beginning of that year I began a love affair with books--I read non-stop. From the Uglies series to Harry Potter to Cloning Miranda to other classics such as The Island of the Blue Dolphins. I just happened to stumble upon Twilight later that year and absolutely fell in love with the book and coughEdwardcough. I was a leeeetle too obsessed. Maybe. ;)

But the thing is, I was only 12 years old. I could barely understand what was going on around me. My mind wasn’t capable of absorbing the world as much as I could now. Sure, I understood right and wrong. But I really did not take the relationship itself for anything other than a beautiful love story. I didn’t perceive books as anything less of entertainment for myself. I simply did not take books, fictional characters, or anything too seriously or too far. I was simply enjoying being a kid and everything else I would wait to understand when I became older. So I just find it to be inaccurate when people insist that Edward’s and Bella’s relationship is unhealthy and a bad example for young girls. In fact, I always realized that their relationship is one that could only be existent in a fairytale, and their relationship along with other fairytale love stories actually became basis to one of my firm beliefs. I found it to be a great example to show me what true love is like and how a guy should treat you. It’s one of those things, after you watch for example the Little Mermaid or Cinderella and you want your prince on his white horse to come and sweep you off your feet. Just exactly like that. That’s exactly how I saw their relationship then. So why the heck am I telling you all this? To make you understand that the impressionable generation should not make you worry or anyone else for that matter--it’s amasingly fascinating how fast you can grow out of things during that age. And to be totally honest, if I had a 12 year old kid. I’d be worried she/he getting into gangs, drugs, sex, drinking, and bullies. Now THOSE are hella scary.

Now, I actually find myself disagreeing with my past conclusions. I don't find their relationship to be straight out of a fairy tale. I can see some realistic elements . . . gestures that I have witnessed, etc.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby diane771 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:58 pm

Bella and Edward a healthy relationship? Real healthy compared to the real world.. To have someone so committed to you that your happiness is what they want more than anything else. To have someone you can trust with all your heart and well- beeing? Yes it on that level. It is not healthy to fall in love so quickly but they did find each other and it worked for them, for me it wouldn't, Healthy when it hurts so bak when you are apart? No thats not healthy. Healthy being able to over come enormous obstacles and still love each other even more. Yes, so I do believe the the pros over come the cons and so it was a healthy realitionship for Bella because she loved and wanted Edward and she finally got that.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Renesmee101 » Sat May 23, 2009 11:09 pm

amethyst wrote:The Dark Knight -- I don’t understand why such a thing would occur. I started reading the Twilight series sometime in 2006. I was 11-12 years old (I am almost 16 now) and in the 7th grade. I was little bit obsessive. Maybe a little bit impressionable. In the beginning of that year I began a love affair with books--I read non-stop. From the Uglies series to Harry Potter to Cloning Miranda to other classics such as The Island of the Blue Dolphins. I just happened to stumble upon Twilight later that year and absolutely fell in love with the book and coughEdwardcough. I was a leeeetle too obsessed. Maybe. ;)

But the thing is, I was only 12 years old. I could barely understand what was going on around me. My mind wasn’t capable of absorbing the world as much as I could now. Sure, I understood right and wrong. But I really did not take the relationship itself for anything other than a beautiful love story. I didn’t perceive books as anything less of entertainment for myself. I simply did not take books, fictional characters, or anything too seriously or too far. I was simply enjoying being a kid and everything else I would wait to understand when I became older. So I just find it to be inaccurate when people insist that Edward’s and Bella’s relationship is unhealthy and a bad example for young girls. In fact, I always realized that their relationship is one that could only be existent in a fairytale, and their relationship along with other fairytale love stories actually became basis to one of my firm beliefs. I found it to be a great example to show me what true love is like and how a guy should treat you. It’s one of those things, after you watch for example the Little Mermaid or Cinderella and you want your prince on his white horse to come and sweep you off your feet. Just exactly like that. That’s exactly how I saw their relationship then. So why the heck am I telling you all this? To make you understand that the impressionable generation should not make you worry or anyone else for that matter--it’s amasingly fascinating how fast you can grow out of things during that age. And to be totally honest, if I had a 12 year old kid. I’d be worried she/he getting into gangs, drugs, sex, drinking, and bullies. Now THOSE are hella scary.

Now, I actually find myself disagreeing with my past conclusions. I don't find their relationship to be straight out of a fairy tale. I can see some realistic elements . . . gestures that I have witnessed, etc.

First off, I've been following this board for a while, and I think that you've got a facinating mind. (boy, I really hope that doesn't sound too creepy)
But, I think that you were clearly very set in reality at 11-12, even if you didn't absorb it very much, as you say. The reason I think this is because I know that most of the 11-12 year olds I've worked with before are very impressionable and would actually see Bella and Edward's relationship as something to strive for in its entirety, which worries me. I agree that there's more things to worry about with such an impressionable age group - the things you mentioned scare the poo out of me, and I'm 17 - but I really think that this is one of those things. At that age, reality is starting to press in and they're starting to learn that those Disney classics that we all love are purely a work of fiction and will 99.99999% of the time never actually happen to them. But when we have a writer with the ability to draw you into her world that is based in fact that has a fiction twist, it starts getting dicey. Don't get me wrong I lovelovelove that Stephenie can create this alternate world, but it can be dangerous. The reason I say that is because Steph's main character is a 17 year old girl who finds the most fantastical, perfect for her relationship on the first try. That worries me because while I'm sure Steph didn't mean to write a "message" book, there are some unintended messages in it that come across. (sorry if I'm getting off track at any point, my brothers are fencing behind me and its rather distracting.) Most girls have to have dozens of boyfriends before they find "the one" and to show that true love can be found the first time worries me. I know that even at that age most guys (no offence to the Twi-Guys on here. Ya'll are a rare and beautiful breed of man) know just how to manipulate a girl into doing things they normally weren't. It can be as innocent as a kiss, and it can be as malicious as sex. I've heard of it happening all because the boy told the girl she was the prettiest thing in the world and that he was in love with her. So to then have this series that portrays true love can happen the very first time you dip your toe into that fish filled sea right when young girls are learning that that doesn't happen can be very confusing and potentially dangerous.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby ringswraith » Sat May 23, 2009 11:59 pm

Well, in my opinion no one should be looking for life's solutions in a book of fiction- especially not one of fantasy fiction. I think that if they're not yet at the point where they can distinguish between reality and fantasy, then they should not read books such as Twilight.

But if they do, they should definitely have some adult supervision- parents should be there to help answer questions, or explain certain things so that they understand it's just a story, written for entertainment purposes.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby diane771 » Sun May 24, 2009 1:06 am

ringswraith wrote:Well, in my opinion no one should be looking for life's solutions in a book of fiction- especially not one of fantasy fiction. I think that if they're not yet at the point where they can distinguish between reality and fantasy, then they should not read books such as Twilight.

But if they do, they should definitely have some adult supervision- parents should be there to help answer questions, or explain certain things so that they understand it's just a story, written for entertainment purposes.


You know Rings, we can talk and talk, to the kids, but I am sure that both you and I had someone that we looked up to when we were growing up. Sorry, I am sure that I am older than you, but you know what I mean. Today most of the stuff out there is just plain not appropriate, and that goes for games and websites also, and you just have do your best as a parent and the reader needs to know that it is a book. But a lot of good things come out of these books, like waiting and trying to do the best thing and not thinking only of yourself and your needs. So this is one of the few books, that I would recommend to young teens because of those messages. My son when he was growing up, couldn't get away with anything because I did it all so he couldn't hide, and I grew up quickly but, he waited for true love and now I have 2 grand kids So the overall message in this love story is a possitive one, even though it deals with vampires and werewolves. But thats just me . I never read Harry Potter books, and I am not sure if there is a fall out there or not, if someone could enlighten me about that. But Bella was more mature for her age in somethings, But I don't want that to impact a teen just because she fell in love, and married her first love, and, that is the real way things are done. That is something that RARELY HAPPENS !
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby edward4ever » Sun May 24, 2009 1:08 am

Well, I have to say, some of these posts show a very low opinion of teenage girls. Just because they are impressionable doesn't mean they will confuse fantasy with reality. I had very little parental supervision in my early teens and I would seem to attract the guys who would whisper sweet nothings to get me to do things with them, but, even with my lack of structure in my home, I was still able to see reality and make rational decisions based on what I thought was best for me.

I started reading Stephen King when I was 10 (The Stand), along with many other books including romance, sci-fi, mystery, etc., but I didn't start seeing the devil in every crow I saw, or think that the next guy I met was going to sweep me away to his private island or that aliens were going to come and take me in their space ship, or that Jack The Ripper was going to slice me into little bits.

I had the sense to separate it all. In fact, it became an escape from real life.

So, give the young girls (and guys) some credit. They're all learning how to use their new and changing bodies that they aren't quite familiar with yet. It's all a part of growing up. You have to experience life to see where it takes you.

Don't blame what happens to the unfortunate few on books they read, or movies they see.

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