Bella Swan Cullen #2

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby ringswraith » Sun May 24, 2009 1:48 am

Just to clarify, my post was not meant to give an opinion on teenagers (I'm including both girls and boys here). All I'm saying is that they need to understand the difference between reality and fantasy. If they're mature enough to grasp that (and that age is different for everyone), then they should be fine reading books like these.

edward4ever wrote:Don't blame what happens to the unfortunate few on books they read, or movies they see.


Or games they play. Or whatever. I agree with this statement. :)

Well, since we've strayed off-topic here... What does everyone think about Bella once she's transformed? I couldn't help but notice just how... "exceptional" she is once she's a vampire.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby diane771 » Sun May 24, 2009 2:10 am

edward4ever wrote:Well, I have to say, some of these posts show a very low opinion of teenage girls. Just because they are impressionable doesn't mean they will confuse fantasy with reality. I had very little parental supervision in my early teens and I would seem to attract the guys who would whisper sweet nothings to get me to do things with them, but, even with my lack of structure in my home, I was still able to see reality and make rational decisions based on what I thought was best for me.

I started reading Stephen King when I was 10 (The Stand), along with many other books including romance, sci-fi, mystery, etc., but I didn't start seeing the devil in every crow I saw, or think that the next guy I met was going to sweep me away to his private island or that aliens were going to come and take me in their space ship, or that Jack The Ripper was going to slice me into little bits.

I had the sense to separate it all. In fact, it became an escape from real life.

So, give the young girls (and guys) some credit. They're all learning how to use their new and changing bodies that they aren't quite familiar with yet. It's all a part of growing up. You have to experience life to see where it takes you.

Don't blame what happens to the unfortunate few on books they read, or movies they see.

pammy ;)


No I think you took it wrong. I was and I think Rings was also just pointing out of how some people take it and we were not in anyway saying all of the readers. I think the readers are great. I was talking about content in books and how sometimes they send the wrong message out and its not only books. Now I don't think that is at all bashing teens I even brought my son into it. But you have to admit some people are easily inflluenced more and I said that this book I felt sent a good message. So don't get upset, because I am looiking at it in reality and maybe 1 in 100000 might get the wrong idea, but I hate to use this for reference but maybe you will see why I said this. In Kentucky there were some high school age teens that thought they were vampires. They went to Florida and killed the parent of one of the girls in that group because she was upset. The boy was tried as an adult and now stands on death row in Florida, Now this is a EXTREME and I am sure that is what Ring and I were saying how some people just take something and use it for bad behavior, even though it has nothing to do with the books. Am I making any sense here ?


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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun May 24, 2009 2:11 am

Wow!! Miss a few days, miss a lot. I am currently stuck in Florida, snarfing internet from a very watchful and cranky neighbor of our rental house. So, my only time to post is 2 am. But, you know me. I never can stay away from the Lex for long.

As to the question of the healthy of Bella & Edward's relationship, I have commented multiple times that it is, if you are going by the definitions we look at in the social work realm, a mix of both unhealthy (quick escalation and committment, behavior limitations for one partner by the other) and healthy(growth and progression, communication, mutual respect, intimacy), but most of the dynamics fall within the healthy spectrum, particularly at the end of the saga. But, most of us aren't looking at the social work definition, are we? Begging the pardon of those who have posted before who I can't recall who posted which, but I completely agree with those of you essentially pointed out that it is healthy and works for them. The relationship and the love it grows out of is intense and complicated and always will be. But, in the end, Edward & Bella are Edward & Bella and what they have is completely a part of that dynamic.

As for the discussion about whether or not the relationship is a good example for adolescents (male or female) to look to, again a yes and no answer. I completely agree with Amethyst in that we (and I am speaking about adults as a concerned one in general and the parent of an almost teenager myself) need to give our kids a little more credit. We live in a different world from when we grew up. I am not that old, and the world is a lot different even from when I was my son's age. Young men and women know and get so much more now than we did. Kids in general have had to grow up faster, deal with so much more than we did. So, to try and pigeonhole them and say they aren't ready for the messages in these novels is unfair to say the least.

That being said, I also completely agree with Ringswraith. As parents and as a community, we need to be more available to our young men and women. Whether as parents or as friends, rather than freaking out and saying they aren't old enough to deal with something, we need to be able to meet them where they are and work from there. Whether we think it is appropriate or not is kind of a moot point if they are already coming to us about it. Freaking out, forbidding or denying access to something is just a sure way to guarantee that whatever it is will become the hottest ticket in town and without guidance or understanding.

To asnwer the latest question, I know a lot of people disapproved of the fact that her transformation and new life were so easy for Bella. But, I disagree. I always took Bella's words to heart when she says it was like she was born to be a vampire. And, within the context of the supernatural love story, I think it makes complete sense. Also, I completely agree that Bella's choice and her preparation had a lot to do with how she turned out. There has been a lot of debate over whether or not Edward should have allowed James' venom to spread, or if he should have turned her or let Carlisle do it sooner. Once I think about it, I don't think so. I think Bella's choice and preparation as it plays out in the saga are what lead to her flawless transformation and adjustment to her new life.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby diane771 » Sun May 24, 2009 2:15 am

ringswraith wrote:Just to clarify, my post was not meant to give an opinion on teenagers (I'm including both girls and boys here). All I'm saying is that they need to understand the difference between reality and fantasy. If they're mature enough to grasp that (and that age is different for everyone), then they should be fine reading books like these.

edward4ever wrote:Don't blame what happens to the unfortunate few on books they read, or movies they see.


Or games they play. Or whatever. I agree with this statement. :)

Well, since we've strayed off-topic here... What does everyone think about Bella once she's transformed? I couldn't help but notice just how... "exceptional" she is once she's a vampire.



Someone was saying at the theater that Bella (Kristen) was paler than the Cullens so I wonder how they will handle that. I am just happy that Rob said they are making BReak Dawn but Bella pregnant and a vamp that's going to really if they do it right a long movie. otherwise it will not be that good what do you think??
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby vampirenerd » Sun May 24, 2009 2:55 am

Diane, I was wondering the same thing. She is already SO pale in the movies, it's going to take some good makeup to make her look even more pale as a vampire. And you're right, if they do the movie right it's going to be very long, but well worth however long I have to sit in a theatre lol.

To answer your question Rings, I never really had a problem with how easily Bella adjusted to her new life as a vampire. As JG pointed out, she had a lot of time to think about it and prepare. I agree that had Edward let James' venom change her that it might not have been as easy on her. No matter what she said or thought she wasn't ready to be a vamp then, IMO. But due to the fact that she knew this was what she wanted and she had time to get ready it wasn't nearly as hard on her as normal newborns. At first I wasn't too happy about her power. As a human Bella really wasn't all that special and now all of a sudden she's got like an amazing superpower and she's protecting EVERYONE. But then I thought about it and the statement JG brought up, that Bella was born to be a vampire, helps it make sense. As a human she was completely different than everyone else. She was already pale and pretty much helpless. Then she becomes a vamp, has no problems with it, and gets to save all the people she loves. Like it said, she was made for that life.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby diane771 » Sun May 24, 2009 3:17 am

I really do hope it is long because I felt that in Twilight that the most important element of Edward and Bella falling in love was missing. You saw them but not in a verbal way but a visual way and it really let me down. I wanted more character development especially the Cullens. I really think that the movie when it first came out received bad reviews because if you didn't read the books, the movie really couldn't stand too well on its own. So I really hope the next movies are not like that.
And I don't care how long it is either vampirenerd . I will go many, many times till it come out on DVD. They could shorten it by putting the Wedding scenes at the very end of Eclispe and start BD on the honeymoon. And when Kristen puts make up on she is a knock out so she has no problem there. I want to see when she wakes up and Emmett and Jasper are all in defensive posture waiting for Bella to go off :lol: And they have to have the scene where Bella and Emmett arm wresting :lol:
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby RebeccaCullen » Sun May 24, 2009 5:17 am

IMO, the photoshopped pictures they used for promotion do look a lot better colour wise. On them Edward is paler then Bella. I blame the makeup department for the live action mess.

I do think diane is right about how the film had the B/E relationship develop. It moved too quickly for my liking. Yes, I get that things need to be cut, but there are somethings that make it more. (And I still wonder how they will work Italy in without it being mentioned in the first movie. Trying to keep book and movie relations seperate here people.)

Bella's whole transformation kinda annoyed me. She had it too easy, but then it was kinda expected because she chose this lifestyle while the others didn't. She was one of the few that took being an immortal with stride.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby amethyst » Sun May 24, 2009 2:41 pm

Renesmee101 wrote:First off, I've been following this board for a while, and I think that you've got a facinating mind. (boy, I really hope that doesn't sound too creepy)

Haha, it doesn’t sound creepy at all. Thank you for the nice comment. And I absolutely agree. I think, personally, it all comes down to what type of person you are during that age (even if you don’t know yourself that well) and most importantly how your parents raised you. I think the latter is a really important factor. I think if at that age if you have parents who allowed things that they shouldn’t, and gave you more freedom and privacy than a 12 year old needs . . . that worries me a bit.

And I am not sure that young girls actually find the relationship itself idealistic, I think it has to do more with the love both Edward and Bella feel for each other. That’s what makes their relationship so beautiful and special to me. The mutual (irrational) intensity of it.
RebeccaCullen wrote:Bella's whole transformation kinda annoyed me. She had it too easy, but then it was kinda expected because she chose this lifestyle while the others didn't. She was one of the few that took being an immortal with stride.

About the current topic--that actually never really made sense for me. It is one of my least favourite parts of Breaking Dawn. It’s not logical for Bella to be so perfect at being a new born. For example: Lets assume that tomorrow I know I will have a really crappy day, know that it is not going to make my day any less crappy than it was going to be had I not known. So I don’t understand how Bella’s knowledge of how a newborn is like (as limited as that knowledge might be) make her become a super newborn because she was “prepared” notwithstanding that that preparation constituted of knowing that a newborn is out of control. But I suppose, Bella needed to be unnaturally self controlled to be around her daughter for one, and for the subsequent events. It is no wonder people think she is such a Marysue once she became a vampire ;)

Also, did anyone find it odd that Bella’s power manifested itself to the degree that it reached in only a month time--considering Kate needed a century for her power to be semi-strong.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Sun May 24, 2009 2:46 pm

A few things bothered me about the movie. There was never any sign of true, emotional affection. They never said I love you, or displayed any kind of affection they showed in the book. Physical affection, yes. Emotional...not so much.

Bella's transformation confused me a little too. I mean, she prepares for being this bloodthirsty, clawing and tearing monster but then she wakes up, says I love you, and skips along kissing her half-human daughter's forehead on the way. Jeez! I mean, I expected something like that. But everyone else had to go through newborn hardship(especially Jasper, poor Jasper) and Bella has it like a breeze in the wind? I mean I didn't mind that part so much, finally she was a vampire, but it was so...unfair.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby Renesmee101 » Sun May 24, 2009 4:58 pm

amethyst wrote:
Renesmee101 wrote:First off, I've been following this board for a while, and I think that you've got a facinating mind. (boy, I really hope that doesn't sound too creepy)

Haha, it doesn’t sound creepy at all. Thank you for the nice comment. And I absolutely agree. I think, personally, it all comes down to what type of person you are during that age (even if you don’t know yourself that well) and most importantly how your parents raised you. I think the latter is a really important factor. I think if at that age if you have parents who allowed things that they shouldn’t, and gave you more freedom and privacy than a 12 year old needs . . . that worries me a bit.

And I am not sure that young girls actually find the relationship itself idealistic, I think it has to do more with the love both Edward and Bella feel for each other. That’s what makes their relationship so beautiful and special to me. The mutual (irrational) intensity of it.
RebeccaCullen wrote:Bella's whole transformation kinda annoyed me. She had it too easy, but then it was kinda expected because she chose this lifestyle while the others didn't. She was one of the few that took being an immortal with stride.

About the current topic--that actually never really made sense for me. It is one of my least favourite parts of Breaking Dawn. It’s not logical for Bella to be so perfect at being a new born. For example: Lets assume that tomorrow I know I will have a really crappy day, know that it is not going to make my day any less crappy than it was going to be had I not known. So I don’t understand how Bella’s knowledge of how a newborn is like (as limited as that knowledge might be) make her become a super newborn because she was “prepared” notwithstanding that that preparation constituted of knowing that a newborn is out of control. But I suppose, Bella needed to be unnaturally self controlled to be around her daughter for one, and for the subsequent events. It is no wonder people think she is such a Marysue once she became a vampire ;)

Also, did anyone find it odd that Bella’s power manifested itself to the degree that it reached in only a month time--considering Kate needed a century for her power to be semi-strong.

You're welcome. Even though I've read posts of yours where I shake my head - mainly on the Jake thread - its still very interesting.

It irritates the h*ll out of me that she had it so easy. I was honestly hoping that she would have as hard a time as everyone els had had, just to throw a wrench into the otherwise perfect goo-fest that was Breaking Dawn. I think it would have made for a better story if she had to really fight to stay in control of herself, which would then make the happy ending all the more beautiful. Its kinda like, you can never truly appreciate the sunny days without the rainy ones. And while Edward and Bella had their fair share of ups and downs, they were all kind of expected since most of the problems in the first three boiled down to Bella's being human. So it would have been nice for her to have a hard time keeping herself in check just to give the story some, IMO, much needed imperfection.
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