Whoa. I've been off the computer for two days and come back and all of a sudden Malaz hates me??? No. Malaz and I argue a lot but I don't take it personally and I'm sure neither does she. Believe me, if I'm offended, I will let it be known.
malaz wrote:That I can’t agree with either because everybody has occasionally jerkish moments, not just 17 year olds. I don’t know why you’re generalizing and in what way does it matter that other people do it, be a jerk I mean? Maybe I should elaborate more on my part, see, I don’t think Jacob’s conducts were a basis to his underdeveloped maturity. Yes he’s young and inexperienced but the same could be said about Edward. The difference is, that Edward is introspective and overly analytical and pessimistic while Jacob is optimistically going with the flow without a rethought type of person and the type in personality makes for a huge difference in how a person would think and act.
....I was saying seventeen year old boys simply because that is what jacob is and i believe everyone should be judged against their peers. of course everyone has jerkish moments.... I don't get your point.
As for Edward, no he is NOT a 17 year old. He's over 100. He's had a hundred years to mature and grow and observe relationships and quandries and learn how to behave.
malaz wrote:Stress? I am sorry, really? I mean, honestly really? - I am not trying to be a jerk or anything. I promise, in fact. I just want you to clarify more.
I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. You really don't see that Jacob was under a lot of stress?? I'm sorry, but did you read New Moon? He just found out he's a werewolf, which makes his emotions harder to control. He just found out his best friend and also the object of his affections is going to throw her life away to become one of his worst enemies. I'd find that stressful....
malaz wrote:No, of coarse not - not almost criminal. Just conducts that lack human ethics, in my opinion - I suppose criminals lack ethics but I am not referring to the same thing. If you want to discuss an action, I’d like to discuss Jacob perusing Bella. Just that, simply.
Fine. We'll discuss that. Jacob wasn't wrong for pursuing Bella. Jacob has a right to pursue Bella, just as Mike does or Eric does or even Edward does. He had no right to kiss her, but he did have a right to pursue her. It was up to Bella to set the limits for that relationship. Bella was the one who should have had loyalty to Edward. Jacob did not need to "respect" Edward by not pursuing Bella. That's just common sense. Besides, if no one ever challenged any relationship, everyone would end up with the boy they kissed on a dare in the coat room in fourth grade.
That does not mean he had permission to kiss her. That's a clear line to anyone, and he crossed it, and that was wrong. Stupid and wrong. Not unforgivable though, as you seem to want to make it, nor was it morally reprehensible, as he had no malicious intent.
But the holding hands was something Bella had control over, and if my memory serves correct, had control over. She could have stopped that but didn't.
malaz wrote:“put Jacob into focus, back next to your dear Edward” - what exactly do you mean? ugh, sorry…I am very rumpled at the moment.
I mean that you need to realize that Jacob does silly things, but so does Edward, and we don't say he doesn't have "human ethics" because of that. And really, controlling someone's freedom to the point of dismantling their truck vs. kissing them.... that doesn't really seem to be a contest, especially when you consider that they were both very sorry. So why can Edward be forgiven but Jacob can't??
Oh and by the way, by continually bringing all these things up, and talking about his inexcusable behaviors, you're blaming him.