Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:27 pm

ringswraith wrote:No, I disagree with that description of Edward- as being one with "no flaws, no weaknesses."

If anything, Edward is very critical of himself. When he realizes he's fallen for Bella, he starts to really hate what he is, because it's preventing him from having a normal relationship with her. He sees his very nature as a curse. He would have given anything to be human for her. In that sense, he sees being a vampire as a flaw.

However, that's not to say I don't think Edward is arrogant. He keeps underestimating Bella's feelings for him- for, after all, she's only (at the start) seventeen, compared to his hundred-some years of experience. I mean, what does she know, right? ;)


Well, just because you disagree doesn't make it wrong does it?

I see Edward being very critical of himself, just as I see Bella being very critical of herself. But then I see both of them act as if they always know best. It's almost as if they have a split personality disorder.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ringswraith » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:35 pm

:lol: Of course not. That's an opinion- I can't make it "wrong."

I said what I said because of Edward's point of view in Midnight Sun. He dwells so much on why he's all "wrong" for Bella- the same things that Bella observes about him (the cold and hard skin, the speed, the strength) are the same things Edward curses. He obviously doesn't think he's perfect- but he's stubborn and arrogant and prone to the "Mr. Right" syndrome, just like anyone could be. :)
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby TillyWhitlock » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:57 pm

Okay, I read Jazz Girls response to the question an hour ago. And mind you I've been trying to figure out a way to say what I want to say without contradicting myself. I think I may be ready to spout out what I was thinking.

What do you think went through Edward's mind as well as what his emotions were when he had to refuse Bella's advances?


I think what everyone seems to agree on is the fact that Edward has to be in control of every little thing that he does around Bella. So when she throws herself at him like that it takes him a back for a minute. He lets go while kissing her for a few moments and then takes control back and pushes her away. I love him for it. He's taking into consideration the fact that he could harm her, and he knows that if he were to give in, he probably would lose control. I think that Bella throwing herself at him shows how inconsiderate she is. She always thinks about what she wants, and never thinks about what it could mean for Edward if he is to give in. I feel Edward's pain more than I feel Bella's when I read the books now. I stop looking at the feelings with Bella. I look at the words that Stephenie has written about Edward. The reader learns to read Edward's eyes too. I think that Bella is blind. Edward is 17. Well physically anyway. And Bella constantly asks him if he wants her like that and he tells her all the time yes. I may be a vampire, but I'm still a man. To which I always respond with a laugh. Bella knows to a degree that Jake, Mike, Eric, and Tyler have all wanted her in that way because well they are teenage boys and they have put themselves out there. Just because Edward doesn't make things like that known to the entire world, doesn't mean that he doesn't want her. He just knows what he can handle and what he can't handle.

Everyone always gets mad at Edward on Isle Esme. However, I have one thing to say about that. In her mind Bella is happy. He can't see into her mind yet. She's still asleep and he's looking at the bruises on her and he knows that he hurt her. And I don't think it's the bruises where their bodies connected that's bothering him. It's the finger marks on Bella's arms that are bothering him. He was holding her there and he sees those marks as the marks of him losing control. While, yes I admit that Edward took it a little too hard, I understand why. And the fact that he asks Bella multiple times how she is feeling is his way of figuring out if she is telling him the truth or not. He mentions that Bella has a track record of letting Edward get away with things that may or may not have hurt her. And he's terrified that he's hurt her and she's not telling him. So he asks her and he makes a big deal out of it. He doesn't know what she's feeling and I think a lot of people don't take that into consideration.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:07 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I think I should spend more time here. You all, especially Jazz Girl, have astounding insight into Edward's character.

I want to sort of defend Bella for a second here, and, in a way, myself. Bella sees him as perfect. As having no flaws, no weaknesses. I guess I sort of figured he saw himself the same way. I still think he does, in a way. I think he thinks he knows better than everyone else, and that he's always right.He pretends to consider other's opinions, until it's really important, and then he just doesn't have time to keep up the charade.

I think that makes it hard for me to see his pain and weakness and emotions.

I don't see Edward as thinking himself better than anyone else. Quite the oppsite actually. He sees himself as the worst monster of them all. Worse than his entire family, because he has brought Bella into his life and thereby exposed her to harm. He is so self-conscious that it's almost scary. He loathes himself and what he is. And that's why he leaves as well. That showed a disregard for Bella's view on the situation, but he did it because he saw himself as the worst danger in her life.

What I do agree with both of you is that he can be arrogant. Especially when he said that her memory of him would fade, and that it would be like he never existed, while he would always remember (or something like that). I think that was underestimating Bella's emotions big-time. And he is also quite condescending and patronizing to Jacob at times. But still I think he has the ability to considers the POV of others. But I think when it comes to Bella and Jacob, I think he can only see the vampire/werewolf issue, and so he feels that there is no need to discuss the matter any further. So he is very over-protective, and like ringswraith said, stubborn.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:37 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I think I should spend more time here. You all, especially Jazz Girl, have astounding insight into Edward's character.

I want to sort of defend Bella for a second here, and, in a way, myself. Bella sees him as perfect. As having no flaws, no weaknesses. I guess I sort of figured he saw himself the same way. I still think he does, in a way. I think he thinks he knows better than everyone else, and that he's always right.He pretends to consider other's opinions, until it's really important, and then he just doesn't have time to keep up the charade.

I think that makes it hard for me to see his pain and weakness and emotions.


HoldingOutForJacob~ Cool. Thanks. I really just call them how I see them. I find Edward fascinating, so I spend a lot of time in his head as it were.

As for Bella, that's my entire point. She sees him as perfect, so she is either completely ignorant or dismissive (you can argue both ways, take your pick) of the power she has to hurt him. She sees herself as so inconsequential compared to him that surely nothing she does can have any kind of deep effect on his thoughts or feelings. It is infuriating.

As for Edward's opinion of himself, I can't agree. As Ringswraith and DovreBanen pointed out, Edward truly hates himself for loving Bella. She brings into sharp relief everything he sees wrong with himself. But, yes, he is arrogant. Because of his mindreading ability, Edward has always prided himself on having a pretty good grasp of human nature. But, Bella doesn't ever react the way everyone else does. In fact, she reacts in the exact opposite way most times. So, even his attempt at understanding her mind backfires.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:58 pm

Yep. And if you look, you'll see that I agreed.

But that's what confuses me about Edward. He thinks he's such a monster, yeah. He thinks Bella shouldn't be with him. But I really believe he thinks that's his only problem. That he doesn't have a soul. But he feels he can make snap decisions that affect everyone else around him without needing to communicate or problem solve, and that's what I have a problem with, with him.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ringswraith » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:20 pm

I can tell you that's not entirely true. He only does this when he feels Bella is in danger- such as when she wants to visit Jacob.

Ordinarily though, he's able to ask for help. I don't know if you've read what's posted of Midnight Sun, but there are examples there of him going to someone to seek help and/or advice. I won't say them in case you haven't read it.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Lunna-san » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:46 pm

TillyWhitlock wrote:Okay, I read Jazz Girls response to the question an hour ago. And mind you I've been trying to figure out a way to say what I want to say without contradicting myself. I think I may be ready to spout out what I was thinking.

What do you think went through Edward's mind as well as what his emotions were when he had to refuse Bella's advances?


As anything about Edward, it's quite complicated. He can say that he's a man and as one, he wants to experiment love and lust as a boy of his age. But he isn't just a boy. He is a vampire. So, I think part of his brain is telling her to get closer, to hold tighter and to taste more.... but there is another part who wants the same thing... for a complete different reason. It's in the end of NM, when he finally realizes that his body reached a priority - Bella - that her scent becomes something secondary to Edward. it's almost a welcoming thing. A reminder of her apsence.

Of course, as this is relationship, it's natural that things evolue to another level - Bella felt ready to give herself to him. But Edward wasn't prepared yet. There was too much risk. With Edward is all about choices and priorities because he can't afford to make a mistake - it's Bella's life on the stake. It's not becaus ehe didn't want to let her advance on him. It's because it wasn't just him... it's him and the monster. The monster might be more silent, but he's still there. He always were. So, Edward would rather looks as an uptight type of guy, than actually putting Bella in risk.

Hmm, about the previous discussion if Edward is perfect or not, I'm putting my two cents on the question and saying no. Edward is wonderful and everything. But if there is something that bothers me in Edward a lot it's this thing about making decisions, big decisions that will affect his relationship with Bella without consulting her. He is so sure he's doing to right thing, that is better if he hurts himself, than hurting her and he doesn't even relalize sometimes, how this affect Bella as well. Bella, of course, has her flaws too and the same goes to Jacob. The three main characters have virtues and flaws.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Ihavemylion » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:33 pm

I am so fascinated by Edward. I love how he fought himself everyday, every second just to be with the one he loves. But then he runs away, away from himself. Just to keep her safe - at least he thought. I wish we were able to know what was going on in his mind while he was gone. What was he feeling, doing? How much more did he have to fight with himself? What truly made him leave? And what went through his mind when he thought Bella had died. He seems like he would have some very deep thoughts and feelings. Deeper than we all would think.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:53 pm

ringswraith wrote:I can tell you that's not entirely true. He only does this when he feels Bella is in danger- such as when she wants to visit Jacob.

Ordinarily though, he's able to ask for help. I don't know if you've read what's posted of Midnight Sun, but there are examples there of him going to someone to seek help and/or advice. I won't say them in case you haven't read it.


I actually haven't. I just find it to be incredible that in the 21st century a man would treat a woman that way and not get called to task for it. She doesn't get mad at him, she just works around it.

I think that it would help the two of them to fight a little bit. Edward seems to be the type of person who's great 95% of the time, but that other 5% he needs someone to just tell him to knock it off. That it will not be tolerated. I am, actually, sorta the same way. But Bella will never cause herself the discomfort of staying mad at him.
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