Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ringswraith » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:14 pm

holdingoutforjacob, if you don't mind my asking, have you read the rest of the series?

I ask, because Eclipse is quite full of the two of them fighting (mostly about Jacob). And Bella tends to surrender because she's fighting against a vampire, whom she loves, even when she's furious that he won't see things her way. There are only so many ways she can fight back. :)
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:29 pm

But HoldingOutForJacob, as you have pointed out before, trying to remove the mystical and magical elements in the story that are the sole basis of such behaviors is impossible and makes no sense. It's not like Bella is driving around with bad brakes, or choosing to work or live in a rough neighborhood, or even just hang out with someone who is a bad influence. In Edward's eyes, Bella is constantly and repeatedly placing herself in extremely dangerous proximity to young, volatile, unpredictable and possibly dangerous individuals who could kill her without any intention to do so simply by losing their temper. And, I think there are times in the saga that Bella does stand up and tell Edward to back off a little. She just doesn't have to argue with him long because he learns from his mistakes and changes his behavior. So, any arguments they have barely ripple the water because Edward, in most situations, backs down. And, in the cases where he doesn't, Bella goes to extremes to demonstrate that she will do what she wants, regardless of what Edward's feelings are about it.

But, I have no doubt that if it was something Bella was truly upset about, she would stay plenty mad at Edward. But, more often than not, she realizes quickly that she doesn't really have to because either he was right in the first place, or he has already fixed his behavior. Why stay mad for the sake of staying mad when being happy is so much better?
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby navarre » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:35 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:But HoldingOutForJacob, as you have pointed out before, trying to remove the mystical and magical elements in the story that are the sole basis of such behaviors is impossible and makes no sense. It's not like Bella is driving around with bad brakes, or choosing to work or live in a rough neighborhood, or even just hang out with someone who is a bad influence. In Edward's eyes, Bella is constantly and repeatedly placing herself in extremely dangerous proximity to young, volatile, unpredictable and possibly dangerous individuals who could kill her without any intention to do so simply by losing their temper. And, I think there are times in the saga that Bella does stand up and tell Edward to back off a little. She just doesn't have to argue with him long because he learns from his mistakes and changes his behavior. So, any arguments they have barely ripple the water because Edward, in most situations, backs down. And, in the cases where he doesn't, Bella goes to extremes to demonstrate that she will do what she wants, regardless of what Edward's feelings are about it.

But, I have no doubt that if it was something Bella was truly upset about, she would stay plenty mad at Edward. But, more often than not, she realizes quickly that she doesn't really have to because either he was right in the first place, or he has already fixed his behavior. Why stay mad for the sake of staying mad when being happy is so much better?


Bingo!!

BTW, your siggy is truly beautiful! ;) :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:30 am

Jazz Girl wrote: But, I have no doubt that if it was something Bella was truly upset about, she would stay plenty mad at Edward. But, more often than not, she realizes quickly that she doesn't really have to because either he was right in the first place, or he has already fixed his behavior. Why stay mad for the sake of staying mad when being happy is so much better?

I think you're right. I'm very much the same way. I can't stay angry for long, unless it's something big. I'm more like..Explode very quickly, and then the fire dies within seconds :)
And I think that Bella didn't want to waste their time by being mad at him over little things. The time spent with Edward was so precious to her. I thought it was so funny when he messed with her truck, and told her if she wanted him to stay away she should shut her window. And then she slams it shut, before opening it all the way :D It's just sweet, and it showed how much she loved the guy even when she saw him as unreasonable. I think that Bella was able to appreciate that Edward really had her best interest at heart, even when she didn't agree with him.
The only time that Edward really pushed his will trough was in matters concerning Bella's safety. And I can't blame him for that. Her life was the most important thing in the world to him. And he belives that Bella is unable to see the dangers of hanging out with the werewolves, because she loves Jacob so much and wont believe that he could ever hurt her. And I don't think Jacob ever would. Be Edward couldn't know that, nor could he trust the rest of the pack. They were his only enemy. For him to just straight away say that it was ok for her to hang around them, would be just be pure stupidity.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Esme echo » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:20 pm

I think what HoldingOutForJacob is concerned about (correct me if I'm wrong)--and it's a concern I share--is Edward's proclivity for deciding what he thinks is best in any given situation and then forcing his will on Bella to achieve the outcome he thinks is best. Edward is big on manipulation to achieve his own ends. The fact that his motivations are pure is beside the point. Even if he is right, he does not have the right to remove Bella's agency and prevent her from doing what she feels is right. He was stronger, so he dominated -- and he did not have that right. No one does.

Edward was self-correcting, which I feel is a mark of his maturity, but as long as Bella was human and very vulnerable to injury and death, Edward used force to keep her safe. Understandable, but not acceptable. I would love to see more of the story after Breaking Dawn, because I think Edward's entire attitude towards Bella changed when she became his equal, physically.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:41 pm

Oh I definitely agree 100% about Edward's tendency to impose his interpretation of what was and was not in Bella's best interests in his drive to protect her. And, it absolutely snaps my teeth together when he does it. But, I think, like Bella, I see the purity of his intentions and his immediate efforts to correct situations when he has gone too far, and I don't bother to stay angry with him for any length of time. For me, it is also soothing to know, no matter how angry Bella (or I for that matter) is at him, she can't be any more angry with him than he is with himself. I think Edward truly hates being a controlling as.s when he feels he has to be. But, in Edward's mind, Bella's total lack of any sense of self preservation seems to warrant his functioning in that capacity until such time as she is physically able to protect herself from the catastrophes she courts. But, you are absolutely right, Esme Echo, in that once Bella is physically his equal and able to protect herself, he is able to step back and just be her partner. Granted, even then he says it is so much more uncomfortable than it should be (ie his anxiety watching her wrestle a mountain lion on their first hunt).

PS Yes, Navarre, I have you and ForJazz926 to thank for that beautiful image. The design concept was mine, but ForJazz926 worked the visual magic. And, of course, your beautiful quote.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Lunna-san » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:08 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:Oh I definitely agree 100% about Edward's tendency to impose his interpretation of what was and was not in Bella's best interests in his drive to protect her. And, it absolutely snaps my teeth together when he does it. But, I think, like Bella, I see the purity of his intentions and his immediate efforts to correct situations when he has gone too far, and I don't bother to stay angry with him for any length of time. For me, it is also soothing to know, no matter how angry Bella (or I for that matter) is at him, she can't be any more angry with him than he is with himself. I think Edward truly hates being a controlling as.s when he feels he has to be. But, in Edward's mind, Bella's total lack of any sense of self preservation seems to warrant his functioning in that capacity until such time as she is physically able to protect herself from the catastrophes she courts. But, you are absolutely right, [b]Esme Echo, in that once Bella is physically his equal and able to protect herself, he is able to step back and just be her partner. Granted, even then he says it is so much more uncomfortable than it should be (ie his anxiety watching her wrestle a mountain lion on their first hunt).
[/b]
PS Yes, Navarre, I have you and ForJazz926 to thank for that beautiful image. The design concept was mine, but ForJazz926 worked the visual magic. And, of course, your beautiful quote.


In the end, Edward feels responsable for Bella's safety. In his world, when something bad happéns, things really get ugly. Besides, guys, Bella is his first (and only) girlfriend. I don't think Edward is kind of used to think as a couple or to take "couple" decisions. He lived 90 years on his own (romantically).

And Bella....well, Edward is her boyfriend. I agree with ringswrath. Bella loves Edward and she knows that Edward is very concerned about safety. But she knows that Edward has his reasons to worry about it... she just tried to make him relax a bit. To rely on her too. The circunstances around them are so unusual. And she loves Edward. Of course she can't be mad at him for a long time. As she can't be mad at Jacob when he screws up too. Or Alice. Bella loves these people, they are their family. It's normal that she's a bit forgiving.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby FindYourTrueCalling » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:43 pm

Would anyone else agree with me when I say that I dont think Edward really cares/loves Renesmee?.
Ive just kind of got that opinion from the start. Even after he could hear her thoughts. I mean dont get me wrong of course he does love her but I think he always has that anguish from when she nearly killed Bella.

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby twilight1909 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:00 pm

Dovrebanen wrote: The time spent with Edward was so precious to her. I thought it was so funny when he messed with her truck, and told her if she wanted him to stay away she should shut her window. And then she slams it shut, before opening it all the way :D It's just sweet, and it showed how much she loved the guy even when she saw him as unreasonable. I think that Bella was able to appreciate that Edward really had her best interest at heart, even when she didn't agree with him.
The only time that Edward really pushed his will trough was in matters concerning Bella's safety. And I can't blame him for that. Her life was the most important thing in the world to him. And he belives that Bella is unable to see the dangers of hanging out with the werewolves, because she loves Jacob so much and wont believe that he could ever hurt her. And I don't think Jacob ever would. Be Edward couldn't know that, nor could he trust the rest of the pack. They were his only enemy. For him to just straight away say that it was ok for her to hang around them, would be just be pure stupidity.


I see it like you do. Funny you should mention the truck/window part in Eclipse. I'm re-reading it and finished that chapter not even an hour ago. :) I like the way SM wrote that scene. Most people think it's Edward's worst moment when he withholds a piece of Bella's engine, but he flat out told her that he would stop her if she tried to see Jacob. I don't think it's such a big deal that he followed through with his words. Bella barely objected ["we'll see about that"] when he first made the promise. She should have seen it coming; Edward is a man of his word. Also, the fact that Alice abruptly lost sight of Bella's future led Edward to that "extreme" measure. It was the first time Bella committed to seeing Jacob, and as she acted on it, her future went blank. Of course that worries Edward sick, especially since his main concern is keeping her out of harm's way. We all know how Bella is a magnet for that. If she really thought Edward was full of BS and was way out of line, she wouldn't have opened her window not even 5 minutes after closing it. Obviously, on some level, Bella understood his precautions. I think Edward also felt that it was his job to protect her from Victoria's constant threat. He doesn't think the werewolves can keep her as safe as he can. And, like Dovrebanen said, Edward had no reason to trust the entire La Push pack.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby twilightsagaaddict » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:22 pm

FindYourTrueCalling wrote:Would anyone else agree with me when I say that I dont think Edward really cares/loves Renesmee?.
Ive just kind of got that opinion from the start. Even after he could hear her thoughts. I mean dont get me wrong of course he does love her but I think he always has that anguish from when she nearly killed Bella.

xoxo.


I would have to disagree. While Edward truly hated whatever it was that was killing Bella in the beginning of her pregnancy, once he discovered he could communicate with the baby, he "saw" the baby with different eyes. I don't think those negative feelings were completely extinguished until after Bella's transformation. Once he was sure Bella, the reason for his existence, was going to survive and be alright, his love and devotion for his daughter was able to blossom. Whatever anguish he felt at the possibility of losing Bella was gone. Their lives, as parents and equal partners, were now complete.
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