Edward Cullen #4

[akire]

^^ Yep, I always thought that Aro's hesitation to set the guard on Bella was more to do with Alice's vision than with Bella actually being there. But (what we now know as) her shield probably didn't hurt.

[Dovrebanen]

Yes, I think that Aro would have believed Alice's visions without Bella being there. Aro trusted her visions completely it seemed. He didn't know that they were subject to change based on what people decide, so he would have had no reason to not trust her. And I agree with Jazz Girl that Aro would have wanted to keep Alice and Edward on his good side, since he admired their talents so much. The main problem without Bella being there would be that Alice would have a hard time convincing Edward that she really was alive, even if he could read her mind. And the fact that Alice could be caught by the sun herself. So Bella being there made all the difference for the overall happy outcome.

[Jazz Girl]

So I was going to wait to post this until we get to our shiny new thread, but it seems things have slowed a might and this might serve to warm them up just a bit. I posted the same question on the Edward & Bella thread, but I think it is utterly appropriate here as well.

There was a recent blog post by a "Twilight Widowers" group out of Salt Lake City called the Normal Mormon Husbands that claims to have "figured out" why so many, particularly women have labeled Edward as the "perfect man". Their conclusion: because he is essentially a middle aged woman in a man's body. Seriously, their conclusion was that Edward thinks, speaks, feels and acts much closer to a woman than a man, so women are naturally drawn to him as they would be drawn to other women in a mixed-gender setting. The posting gave all of these examples based upon DHN comparing his words or thoughts to those of "an actual guy". For example. They compared his thoughts in the first biology class when Bella comes in to what a "normal guy today" would say. Edward's words: "The scent swirled around me,again scattering my thoughts and nearly propelling me out of my seat." According to their post, a "normal guy today" would say something more like: "I farted." (I mean, come on! Talking about a "swirling scent" that "nearly propelled me out of my seat". I know he's a vampire, but Edward is still a man and subject to clearing a room with bodily odors, right?)"

Another example: As Edward considers devouring Bella like an Arby's Melt and then murdering all of his classmates, he pauses to think of the ramifications this decision would have on his family. Particularly, he thinks of Esme.

"Edward's Words: "I didn't have to cause my mother stress, worry...pain. Yes, it would hurt my adopted mother, too. And Esme was so gentle, so tender and soft. Causing someone like Esme pain was truly inexcusable."

The Problem: The only thing in their lives that men refer to as "gentle, tender and soft" are menu items at Ruth Chris' Steak House. Not their mothers. And when males are thinking about doing something stupid, they think about how mad their mom is going to be when she finds out, not that their actions would actually cause her pain.

What a Man Would Say: "I'm totally eating Bella. My mom is gonna kill me!"" (taken directly from their blog, a link to which is below for anyone who wants to read the full post.)

So the question is this: Why is it Bella and the majority of the rest of the female population so dramatically and completely drawn to Edward? Is it, at least in part, his feminine side? Is it his innate maleness? Is it something else? I have my own theories that include nothing about Edward being in good touch with his feminie side. But, I am more interested in your theories?

Normal Mormon Husbands Blog Article: Midnight Sun: Edward Undone!

[maybeshescrazy]

Personally, I'm with the guy who wrote that, partially. In many, if not most cases, Edward thinks more like a woman than a man. However, I don't think girls like him because they empathise with his feelings. Rather, they empathise with Bella's feelings, and since Edward's are written and described in much the same way, girls like the fact that he's feeling as "into" the relationship, and acting in the same way as Bella (and subsequently, most girls).

And, of course, he's sad. He needs to be "fixed". Sorry if I'm sounding like a series-one House putting Cameron down, but that just is sexy to a lot of girls.

[Dovrebanen]

So the question is this: Why is it Bella and the majority of the rest of the female population so dramatically and completely drawn to Edward? Is it, at least in part, his feminine side? Is it his innate maleness? Is it something else? I have my own theories that include nothing about Edward being in good touch with his feminie side. But, I am more interested in your theories?

Normal Mormon Husbands Blog Article: Midnight Sun: Edward Undone!

Excellent question Jazz Girl. *jumps in my seat, ready to answer*
First of all, I read the whole blog article. So I just wanted to comment on bits and pieces of that first. He complains that Edward uses words like "I listened...(as)...Jessica's frivolous internal monologue continued to gush." and claims that normal men hardly ever uses these words. Well, no of course they don't. Edward is a product of 1918, not 2009. His well articulated speaking is one of his strong character traits. He uses words that no one else does anymore. This does not make him feminine, it showes that he has taken his past with him. And I have never come across anyone that can formulate a point like Edward can.
And I find that they are describing some sort of cave man here... If that is the ultimate man, I will pass.."I farted". Come on, that has nothing to with anything. We are talking about a guy who is thinking about killing a girl in a room full of people here!

Now for my opinion on your question. I love Edward too death. For me, he is the perfect man (excluding the love of my real life of course, in case he should read this ). And he is a true MAN. I never saw Edward as having feminine traits. It didn't even cross my mind. He is strong and brave, and he has overcome so much in his life. He has a mind that can hold so many aspects at the same time. And that is what DHN gave too me, insight into his thoughts. And that was really when I "fell" for Edward, when I heard the workings of his mind. What attracts me to Edward is not specifically his maleness either. It is so hard to pinpoint exactly what there is about Edward that I love. I think it is his capacity to love. When he loves someone he does it with all of him, whether it's the woman in his life or his mother. He is respectful and polite most of the time. When he looks at Bella he makes her feel like she is his whole world, and she truly is too him. Edward is protective. He is not afraid to talk about the way he feels. To me that is the ultimate man, and it has nothing to do with feminine sides. If all this makes him seem feminine in the eyes of someone, so be it. I purely see him as a man who is well in contact with himself, and who wears his heart on his sleave. And who genuinely cares about the people around him. And that's what draws him to me. Guys who were sensitive and kind often tended to be viewed as feminine by the other guys at my high school. These were the genuinely good guys. And I think this article represent some of the same view. And in my view, that is totally wrong. So for me Edward is very much a man, and at the same time a sensitive person, and that's what draws me to him. Sorry for the long reply. Not really sure what I'm saying here, but hope I made some points.

[Lunna-san]

Well, Jazz Girl, Edward is in many ways... ideal. He's handsome, polite, brilliant, athletic....the list goes. He is a fictional character and was created by a woman. Let's just admit that guys in books are usually, way cooler. They don't say stupid things when they are hitting on you and certainly don't sing cheesy songs to you as well. ( yeah, the level of the guys who hits on me is scary, to say the very least) . In the end of the book, they always say the right thing. It's a romantic story, of course. It was written to make us swoon, as we did over Mr. Darcy, Romeo and many other male characters.

But I don't think this turns Edward a woman himself. I like to think that Edward is the way we know for the circuntances. Men of our time don't say half of the things he does maybe because they sing along with 50 Cent and Snoopy Dog. Times were different when Edward was raised and he was raised right. The idea of court was different, the romance was much more subtle. He is a child of a much more romantic Era. The same goes to Jasper, beautiful and smooth - a true Southern gentleman, with the add of that sweet accent... of course it is to drool over. How could we not?

The journalist - a guy - in my opinion has a very cynical view of romantic stories and the men portraited there. There is this despise over the chick lit. I think it's a shame if he thinks this way and he feels so sour that he has to write things like that. I simply don't care. Edward is my Dark Prince Charming and kicks Romeo's butt anytime. I never accepted guys like Mike Newton and I definetely will not start now.

[Kachiti]

Jazz Girl,

I can't but wonder maybe, maybe not. When guys are around guys they act and say one thing but when they are alone with a girl its different. Which in my mind makes me think they think differently. Okay now I'm not making sense. When I read I prefer males authors, my favorite author is Dickens. He had a way of writing that made sense but then I have to think maybe he wrote the way he did because he knew most of his readers would be women. Which got me thinking even more about what has been said in so many post before. Edward was born in a different time when men had manner and treated women accordingly so. And Edward's still thinks like that because that was the way he was brought up as human and in many ways by Carlisle as a vampire.

Its the way he treats her that makes him so attractive at least to me. I agree we are drawn to Edward because of the way Bella see Edward. Bella is our filter, its her thoughts and feelings we are reading. In Midnight Sun its a whole other ballgame, there is no filter. SM had brothers growing up so I don't think it would be hard for her to write from a male point of view. If she got stuck she could just ask one of them.

There are guys out there that are in touch with their so called "feminine side" They might not broadcast it to the world but I have known one or two. There are guys who read have read the Twilight series, I can't help but wonder what they think?

[ringswraith]

I didn't read the entire article, just what Jazz Girl wrote, but I have to agree with what's been said: It sounds like their version of the "ideal man" is a caveman.

If that's the case, well- so sorry to disappoint.

Let's not even go into how they're comparing a mind that grew up in the early 1900's to a modern man. What passes for "accepted" (I refuse to say "normal," because that's highly subjective) masculine behavior now does not match what was accepted then exactly. And being eloquent in his thoughts is feminine? I do that when I write. I am somehow reminded of Francis in A Bug's Life- getting in touch with your feminine side. /shrug

I can't say why women are attracted to Edward, because they're attracted to different things. I will say that I don't think it's because he's a "middle-aged woman in a man's body." Everything about Edward practically screams manhood- hunter, protector, provider. Just because he's in tune with his feelings and his relations doesn't make him any less of a man.

[Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3]

I didn't read the entire article, just what Jazz Girl wrote, but I have to agree with what's been said: It sounds like their version of the "ideal man" is a caveman.

If that's the case, well- so sorry to disappoint.

Let's not even go into how they're comparing a mind that grew up in the early 1900's to a modern man. What passes for "accepted" (I refuse to say "normal," because that's highly subjective) masculine behavior now does not match what was accepted then exactly. And being eloquent in his thoughts is feminine? I do that when I write. I am somehow reminded of Francis in A Bug's Life- getting in touch with your feminine side. /shrug

I can't say why women are attracted to Edward, because they're attracted to different things. I will say that I don't think it's because he's a "middle-aged woman in a man's body." Everything about Edward practically screams manhood- hunter, protector, provider. Just because he's in tune with his feelings and his relations doesn't make him any less of a man.

ringswraith, you are my hero for saying that.
Thank you for stating the facts.

[holdingoutforjacob]

I don't think Edward is a very masculine character at all, actually.

I don't mean this as a slam to Edward, the way these authors clearly did. It's just my honest opinion. It's why I'm more attracted to Jacob, because he is more manly, at least to me. It's why so many of Edward's most quoted, beautiful lines are kind of lost on me. It's why I just can't connect with him in the way so many of you have connected with him.

I know I sound terribly old-fashioned. But before I go on (and I do have more to say) I just want to state again - I don't say these things as a slam to Edward. I don't think it's wrong or bad for him to be less masculine than other characters. It's just something that is.

I think Edward is described as very androgenous. He is described as "beautiful" and often likened to the appearance of an angel, which is descriptive, no doubt, but leaning towards the feminine side. Also, it is said that every human being, but especially every great man, has a flaw that can be his downfall. Edward's is clear - the melodrama. And that is just SUCH a feminine trait.

Like I said, I can see how the authors would read it that way.

By the way, in this conversation especially, none of this is fact. This is SO based on our interpretations of the characters. I think we should discuss this, because I think it's very interesting, but I think it could also very quickly deteriorate into an argument. Let's all remember that even if someone says they agree that Edward is more feminine, it is not necessarily a jab at Edward. Make sure you understand exactly what someone is saying before you reply, especially if it's something you're emotional about. Trust me.