Renesmee #2

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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:13 pm

spicey16 wrote:
TNO wrote:Ooh! me! I hate her! She makes no sense! There isn't a logical reason for her to grow super fast, for example; if anything it should be super slow, since humans age normally and vamps don't age at all... Ditto for body heat, it should be lower than normal human temperature because vamps are basically blocks of mobile ice. Jacob's imprinting also makes no sense, since imprinting exists for purposes of reproduction and Renesmee, like mules, should be infertile.

i am definatly no nessie expert but maybe she grows fast bc vampire vemon heals things so in a sense its healing her into adulthood. making bones grow and harden, brain grow ect. basically all the things that would be accomplished b4 she was an adult the venom jsut makes it happen faster. also I dont remember her being warm but i dont have my books.. is she warm? or just warm compared to bella and the vamps?


To first comment on TNO... doesn't make sense? We're talking about vampires and werewolves... it's probably not going to make any sense, this is fantasy. ;)

Spicey... Nessie runs hot, not quite what Jacob runs, but much warmer than a human.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby opulent » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:44 am

Ditto, Amanda Beth, on the whole fantasy thing...
And TNO, ummm.. .Can I point out that Nessie's development makes sense, especially the intellectual side of it? The vampires are able to think of many more things and much faster than humans. Plus they have perfect recall. So it would make sense that Nessie would only need to see or hear something once before she says or does it. On top of that, it ISN'T A PROVEN FACT THAT IMPRINTING EXISTS ONLY FOR REPRODUCTION (well, as much as anything in a fantasy novel could be a proven fact). That was only a theory on Sam's part. So who knows why Jacob imprinted on her.

And lastly, why in the heck would she be like a mule? She is half-human, half vampire. No mule in the equation. The vampire half obviously doesn't hinder change in her body, so it most likely wouldn't hinder pregnancy either.

And Nessie could turn out to be very vain, yes. But I think most likely Carlisle and Esme and even Edward and Bella will see that happening early on and help to put a stop to it. After all, Edward would see vain thoughts once they started popping up.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby SweetImpakt » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 pm

Yes I agree with you opulent.

To start with, it is fantasy. Vampires and werewolves don't make sense either. In fantasy, everything is possible.So maybe she doesn't make sense, but if you don't like things that don't make sense, you shouldn't read fantasy.
And for the intellectual side, it makes sense indeed for her to develop much faster, just because of the vampire gene in her body. Vampires are super smart, so it wouldn't make sense for her to develop as slow as a normal human.
For the reproduction, I think she might be able to have children. Her body isn't frozen in time as the vampire's body, and she still has blood in her veins. So it might make sense for Jacob to imprint on her, even if the imprinting happens to reproduce.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby opulent » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:56 am

Thank you, SweetImpakt. I agree with you too.

But I got thinking. ..has anyone here ever known someone super smart, like genius level? And while they are smart, they usually are socially inept, too. They have no friends their age. They are sometimes really conceited about themselves and their own intelligence. I am wondering if this might happen to Nessie. I still think Edward would catch it, I just can't help wondering.

But I think Nessie has other traits right now besides intelligence. She demonstrates compassion to Bella and Jake. She shows impatience when Jake doesn't feed her fast enough (which I think is hilarious - Jake deserves it). Nessie is her own person. She is just young enough to still be developing her personality, just like any other young child.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:39 pm

Jake deserves it? Really?

I think she's going to be terribly spoiled. Everyone gives her everything she wants exactly when she wants it. She's already showing a lack of patience when not given things immediately.

I think that of course Nessie and Jacob can have kids since you imprint upon the person that is best suited to carry on the werewolf gene.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:03 pm

opulent wrote:Thank you, SweetImpakt. I agree with you too.

But I got thinking. ..has anyone here ever known someone super smart, like genius level? And while they are smart, they usually are socially inept, too. They have no friends their age. They are sometimes really conceited about themselves and their own intelligence. I am wondering if this might happen to Nessie. I still think Edward would catch it, I just can't help wondering.


My brother is a genius... literally just brilliant. He's 24 and works for the military as an engineer (civilian, he's not a solider) and had his first patent approved at 23. My mom said the hardest thing was to make SURE he was social and had friends that weren't just the kids in his gifted classes. You would never know if you just met him at a bar that he's this super genius, he's a really chill guy. What I wouldn't do to live in his head for ONE DAY to comprehend how he sees the world. It's nothing like the rest of us do I'm sure of that.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:09 pm

I've known kids who were super smart who've gone both ways. I've known those that, like your brother, had parents who made sure they were socially aware. But, as is often the case with geniuses, they are not only socially unaware but they are also very unemotional. A lot of the kids I've known who were really really smart also had a really hard time attaching to people emotionally, both due to a sense of superiority and just not knowing how to relate to things outside of academics. I think it makes sense though, when you think about it. People who are super intelligent and super driven towards the scholarly tend to marry people who are very similar to them, and genetics would indicate that they have children who are super smart. But those people will only emphasize education as opposed to social well-being. Parents who are smug about their intellect will raise children who are the same way.

Edward and Bella are none of these things, but Nessie has way more influences than just them. She'll learn to be playful from Emmett and Jacob, caring from Esme, intelligent and compassionate from Carlisle. Really, the worst things that can happen with her is she may end up rather spoiled and she could end up a wee bit vain, depending on how much time she spends with Rosalie.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby TNO » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:30 pm

opulent wrote:Ditto, Amanda Beth, on the whole fantasy thing...
And TNO, ummm.. .Can I point out that Nessie's development makes sense, especially the intellectual side of it? The vampires are able to think of many more things and much faster than humans. Plus they have perfect recall. So it would make sense that Nessie would only need to see or hear something once before she says or does it. On top of that, it ISN'T A PROVEN FACT THAT IMPRINTING EXISTS ONLY FOR REPRODUCTION (well, as much as anything in a fantasy novel could be a proven fact). That was only a theory on Sam's part. So who knows why Jacob imprinted on her.

And lastly, why in the heck would she be like a mule? She is half-human, half vampire. No mule in the equation. The vampire half obviously doesn't hinder change in her body, so it most likely wouldn't hinder pregnancy either.

Well, no, her intellectual development doesn't make sense. For example, Edward can hear Renesmee's thoughts while she is still developing in Bella's womb- but how would Nessie have been able to "think" in words? I know fetuses can hear and recognize voices, but they wouldn't be able to use words- they wouldn't know how to use words and they wouldn't be able to understand anything. The point being, Nessie might have some super sponge-like knowledge intake or whatever, but she's basically surrounded by darkness and liquid, so she wouldn't be able to articulate her thoughts. She wouldn't be capable of thinking to her father- "I will try to stop kicking because it hurts mother, and I love mother so I do not wish to hurt her." She shouldn't have been able to communicate, as it were, with Edward. I can live with her being a supergenius- I can't live with her being fluent in English before she is even born. You cannot "grow" knowledge- to learn something (language, in this case) you have to be exposed to it at least once, no matter how smart you are.
Nextly, the mule thing- I meant she should be infertile, like a mule. Mules, in case you didn't know, are half-horse half-donkey cross breeds. They are also (largely) infertile. So are Ligers, for that matter. Or any other crossbreeds. Therefore, Nessie should be infertile (thus ending her similarity to both mules and Ligers). And just because the vamp genes don't stop her aging for an apparently arbitrary amount of time, she should still be infertile for the same reason mules are infertile- she's a crossbreed.
Furthermore: Re: "It's fantasy, it doesn't have to be realistic" argument: Uh-huh. Yeah, I know it's fantasy. But there's this thing known as Willing Suspension Of Disbelief (the definition of which should be pretty self-explanatory, but if not it means that the audience lays aside their knowledge of unbreakable rules of this world to enter and accept and for a while become a part of a fantasy/science fiction world). I quote:
An author's work, in other words, does not have to be realistic, only believable and internally consistent...
(TVtropes.org)
Now. Essentially this means that fiction- fantasy especially- doesn't necessarily have to abide by the rules of our universe, but it must make sense, and it must follow its own rules (e.g., saying "vampires can't reproduce!" and then turning around and getting your main character pregnant by her vampire husband is not internally consistent).
See, sparkling vampires? While that turned Twilight into a Wall Banger for me, it was internally consistent in that the vampires glittered and shone their way right to the very end.
On the other hand, Edward made it very, very clear that vampires can't reproduce- and was backed up by every other vampire who had a say on the topic. Then, in BD, Bella's suddenly pregnant with Ed's child, thus breaking the aforementioned rule of infertile vampires, thus SM broke her own canon and the rule of internal consistency, thus turning BD into a Wall Banger for many of SM's fans. You see?
The general point being, fantasy can be, well, fantastical and unrealistic as it wants for all I care (though sparkly vampires is pushing it), so long as it remains internally consistent and realistic within itself. You see?
Last edited by TNO on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby vampirenerd » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:22 pm

Ok, I'm going to put my two cents in lol

No offense TNO but we have no example of another vamp baby so we don't know what she was capable of. If she can hear voices (and I'm sure with her being half vamp her hearing would be better than a normal fetus) and her mental maturity is growing at such a fast rate after she's born, who is to say it wasn't growing with that same fast rate while she was still in the womb. To me it seems believable that she would be able to articulate thoughts, maybe not in complete sentences but enough to get her point across to Edward.

I don't see why she should be infertile just b/c she's a cross breed. Dogs are crossbred all the time and can still have puppies. Since vamps and humans and werewolves have pretty much the same dna makeup (with just a few differences) it would be the same as two different types of dogs breeding. She is also more like a human with the fact that she has pumping blood and she isn't frozen in time so I think it would be possible for her to have babies.

I do agree with you though that fantasy should follow the same rules it starts off with until the end. The thing about that though is when Edward says vamps can't have babies that is true as far as he knows. Also, SM said herself that in the interview where she answered the guestion "can vamps have babies" she used the female vamps as an example to throw us readers off track. Female vamps can't have babies b/c they're body isn't changing (no period) but obviously males can. I don't exactly understand how that works out though.

I agree that Nessie would be a pretty well rounded person. Living with so many people with so many different talents she will more than likely be well versed in pretty much everything. I don't think they would allow the spoiling to get to out of hand. But normal people have the same problem. The first grandkid is usually spoiled beyond reason.
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Re: Renesmee #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:31 pm

TNO,

I see some of your points and I know some people like to see reason in all decisions... but in this end this is just a fictional story and it doesn't really matter what makes sense or doesn't make sense.

You also keep saying "vampires can't have babies" They CANT have babies, females that is... no one said anything about the male side since before Edward and Bella it wasn't even fathomable to think a vampire could have that much self control. Not sure if this was posted but Stephenie explains herself: http://stepheniemeyer.com/bd_faq.html
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