Edward Cullen #5

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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Kachiti » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:58 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:As you've opened the door, I will walk through.

First off, I am tired of your condescension to me. "I just wish you could see that" who are you kidding??

Now, to the matter at hand. Dismantling someone's truck, kidnapping them, and just generally thinking that you have that amount of control over anyone else's actions is WRONG.

Jacob kissed Bella. He didn't ask permission, and she didn't want him to. Guess what?? It happens. all. the. time. People make silly mistakes. In kissing her he showed what? That he wanted to kiss her? That he was in love with her? Gosh, you're right. I am just so wrong here.

It's not like he raped her guys. He kissed her. I'd rather have someone kiss me than take away basic rights from me and think that's perfectly okay.

So, even though you know why Jacob did the second kiss, you still think it's despicable? Fine.

You know, for all your talk to me about how to talk to people, you sure are good at acting mighty superior aren't you??

What is the bigger issue I'm missing here?? I think you all want to blow it into something it's not. Guess what?? If this were real life, and someone kissed me even though I didn't want them to, people would say, yeah, he's a jerk. But if I said someone dismantled my car and had their sister hold me hostage when they were out of town so I couldn't see my best friend - they'd tell me to run. Fast.


HOFJ,

I mention on several occasion that you shouldn't take things personal, your not being back into a corner here. We all entitled to our own opinions but you have to accept the fact that others are going to question them. Just because we don't agree with you don't mean we are nitpicking, dismissive, disrespectful, condescending or superior. Like Ringwraith said no one is attacking you but a little clarity in your explanation and openness will go a long way.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby spicey16 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:50 am

i think the main difference in edward and jacobs actions are that Edward did it for bella.. Jacob did it for him self (the 1st kiss) Also, Jacob took physical action. he is much stronger than her and could force her to do whatever.. pretty scary. BUT i still think bella asked for it. she totally lead jacob on so to say that she is commited to edward and thats why it's wrong i think is unfair. I think deep down she was afraid edward was going to leave her again so she kept jacob on the side.. thats a whole nother story but relevant in that it makes jacob less wrong.. sorry if i dont make sense!!
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Dovrebanen » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:43 am

twilight1909 wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:What is the bigger issue I'm missing here?? I think you all want to blow it into something it's not. Guess what?? If this were real life, and someone kissed me even though I didn't want them to, people would say, yeah, he's a jerk. But if I said someone dismantled my car and had their sister hold me hostage when they were out of town so I couldn't see my best friend - they'd tell me to run. Fast.


You disregard the most important factors by using this as a real life example.
So just make sure there is a sadistic vampire who is hunting you and wants to torture you to death, and make sure that there is a pack of unpredictable werewolves that you're running to. Oh, and remember that this best friend is a sworn enemy of your boyfriend's kind and your bf had already promised to stop you in order to protect you. Then you sneak off without him knowing, but his sister sees the future and yours suddenly went blank, so he quickly decides to disable your vehicle so that you can't leave and he can make sure you're safe.
Now, would they still tell you to run? :)

I think that's much better than my best guy friend kissing me unwillingly when I'm more than happy with the love of my life. And I don't think that happens "all the time." Do you know a lot of people in committed relationships that are assaulted by a close friend? I sure don't.

You are so right. A great post.

For me, the kiss was a huge violation of Bella. The first one, where she tried to push him away, and that only made him more eager. That is just wrong. It is her body, and so it is her choice who she kisses. The second kiss was also wrong, even if the motivations for that kiss were different. He played on her emotions and fears. And on both occasions, he moved in on a girl who's heart belonged to someone else.

As for the truck/kidnapping incident. It can happen in real life as well, but with different reasons and outcomes. If a guy orders his sister to keep his girlfriend hostage so she doesn't go out and see her friends, that would be almost a crime. But if that girl was a drug addict and he kept her inside to keep her away from it, he would in fact be trying to save her life. Two very different situations. So we need to look at the motivations behind Edward's actions.
And I think you have said it all here, twilight 1909. This is a fictional story. It involves immense danger to Bella's life, and a vampire prone to overreaction mixed with a werewolf best friend and mortal enemy. Bella played on Edward's worst fears by going to La Push, and he did what he could to stop her from approaching what he felt to be danger at the time. And Edward did not do it to restrain Bella. He did it to keep her safe, the only way he knew how. He was not allowed to accompany her to La Push. He didn't know the rest of the pack. He had only met Jacob, and that hadn't been all too friendly. So of course he was concerned.
And just so it's stated. I keep the same standards for Edward and Jacob. I like Jacob, but on some levels, he fails to live up to what I expect a man should behave like. And Edward meets my standards. I suppose it's a matter of what kind of guy one prefers.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:30 am

Alright, new question.

What does Edward have trouble most with in his life?
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby navarre » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:59 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Alright, new question.

What does Edward have trouble most with in his life?


Hmm. I would say his ability to see himself as anything other than a monster. His self-worth. The thing is, I feel that part really manifested itself when Bella came into his life. Prior to that - not so much, if at all.
He really had a hard time believing he could be loved. HIs constant struggle to not kill Bella sometimes pushed him over the edge in his thinking and the conclusions he came to; which leads to the second problem which was over-reactions.
Case in point - New Moon and that whole mess. He could not see past the end of his nose when it came to Bella and his ridiculous belief that Bella would be better off without him and the underestimating of how catastrophic his leaving would be for both of them.

Also his belief that he would never be good enough for Bella. I feel he was trying to convince himself and came to believe that Jacob would be better for her. But as Bella stated in New Moon that she would always love Jake, but it would never, ever be enough.
In the end, Edward was the choice and the best choice for Bella. I'm glad Edward saw fit to fight for the woman he loved and would stay with her until she sent him away(as he told Jacob in the end of New Moon) - which, thank goodness, would never, ever happen. :D

Anyway, that's how I see it.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby twilight1909 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:08 pm

amethyst wrote:ahhh, where would this forum be without you? You've been back for a couple weeks now, and your posts couldn't get any better!! By the way, you seem very funny. :lol:


:D Why thank you Malaz!! I appreciate that. I tend to downplay my humor around here because it's easy to misinterpret my tone.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby HarriannCullen » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:24 pm

Just wondering if your knowing Edward, has completely and irrevicably ruined your opinion of the "normal" human male???

I sit here looking at my partner, wondering why he isn't twinkling like thousands of diamonds! ;) :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:19 pm

navarre wrote:
Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Alright, new question.

What does Edward have trouble most with in his life?


Hmm. I would say his ability to see himself as anything other than a monster. His self-worth. The thing is, I feel that part really manifested itself when Bella came into his life. Prior to that - not so much, if at all.
He really had a hard time believing he could be loved. HIs constant struggle to not kill Bella sometimes pushed him over the edge in his thinking and the conclusions he came to; which leads to the second problem which was over-reactions.
Case in point - New Moon and that whole mess. He could not see past the end of his nose when it came to Bella and his ridiculous belief that Bella would be better off without him and the underestimating of how catastrophic his leaving would be for both of them.

Also his belief that he would never be good enough for Bella. I feel he was trying to convince himself and came to believe that Jacob would be better for her. But as Bella stated in New Moon that she would always love Jake, but it would never, ever be enough.
In the end, Edward was the choice and the best choice for Bella. I'm glad Edward saw fit to fight for the woman he loved and would stay with her until she sent him away(as he told Jacob in the end of New Moon) - which, thank goodness, would never, ever happen. :D

Anyway, that's how I see it.


Navarre~ I could not state it any better. We are of one mind on this one. Thank for stating it so clearly. 8-)

HarriannCullen wrote:Just wondering if your knowing Edward, has completely and irrevicably ruined your opinion of the "normal" human male???

I sit here looking at my partner, wondering why he isn't twinkling like thousands of diamonds! ;) :D


HarriannCullen~ Welcome to the discussion. Hahahahaha! No, no. It's all about perspective, you see. Edward has always been and will always be meant for Bella. We are just lucky enough to get to meet him and spend some time with him and his wonderful family. Don't be too hard on your partner. There is, after all, only one Edward Cullen. Just try to find the pieces of Edward that they might have buried within them. Sometimes you have to dig deep. But, you'l find it. :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby HarriannCullen » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:35 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:
HarriannCullen wrote:Just wondering if your knowing Edward, has completely and irrevicably ruined your opinion of the "normal" human male???

I sit here looking at my partner, wondering why he isn't twinkling like thousands of diamonds! ;) :D


HarriannCullen~ Welcome to the discussion. Hahahahaha! No, no. It's all about perspective, you see. Edward has always been and will always be meant for Bella. We are just lucky enough to get to meet him and spend some time with him and his wonderful family. Don't be too hard on your partner. There is, after all, only one Edward Cullen. Just try to find the pieces of Edward that they might have buried within them. Sometimes you have to dig deep. But, you'l find it. :D


Trouble is, if I dig too deep, I an sure I will end up in jail :lol:
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby diane771 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:42 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Alright, new question.

What does Edward have trouble most with in his life?


I believe Edward had the most trouble in his life, is from the very start of him being a vampire. He went to the hospital with his mom and both were on their death-bed; only to wake up into a strange new world that he had no idea even existed. He was torn away from his mother, his human future, and he didn't know how to deal with it especially at such a young age and so alone.

Edward then tried to embrace his new life, only to find more turmoil in it. He didn't want to be a monster and he was so conflicted about himself and what he was going to do with this new life. Edward always wanted to do the right thing, so he had to accept who he was and return to the man who had turn him into this monster. In finding Carlisle, he found some peace of mind, he knew then that he could be a vampire if he had the strength and control by letting Carlisle help him to lead the life style that he could accept and not be so self-deprecation.

There was an emptiness in his new life now, so he just threw himself into books, music and anything to distract him from his inner thoughts of being a monster. As the Cullen family grew, it became a lot easier for him to have someone around him that he could be himself. He didn't have to hide this big secret life of his alone anymore, because the family had grown and they all had agreed to live in a honorble way by not killing humans.

Edward was still very much alone even with his "family" and for years and then decades and then sudddenly came Bella. This was something he had never in his human, or as a vampire life ever experienced. This was new, exciting, but also bringing out something inside him that he wanted to bury and that was the lust for human blood. Bella played such a huge role in his new life that for the first months he was questioning and trying to control himself and falling in love all at the same time. This was not necessary the most troubling part of his life but the most significant part. So I feel that Edward turning into a vampire was more troubling than meeting Bella. He did have thoughts of killing her and losing control, but he still was falling in love and that was something that Edward thought he would ever have : a soul mate.
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