Jacob Black #2

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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby amethyst » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:43 pm

First, I should mention that while Edward and Bella may not be your ideal they complement each other perfectly. When they are together, they don’t have to do anything other than just “be”. There are many scenes in the series where all they do is stare at each other, and like what they’re seeing. Bella describes it as if he could see her soul, and that he liked what he saw. And she him. I find the relationship they share enthralling, and it is the only reason that I read this series. Their relationship is a definite idealistic one, to me. I love everything about it. I love everything about it that a lot of people and most critics seems to hate. So no, Edward and Bella are not the opposite of what I look for.

I think it would be unwise of me to comment on the rest of your post, which I hardly agree with, so I am going to leave it at that. :D
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Esme echo » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:06 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Watching the movie really made me realize something. Bella and Jacob are truly a perfect example of the perfect human love. She comes alive with him. He makes her feel good about herself. He makes her feel happy and sunshiney and warm. Their relationship is all the things that, to us, indicate true love. "Jacob's Bella" is truly marvelous.

I can't agree that Jacob and Bella had a perfect human love--unless you only look at the relationship from Jacob's point of view. Bella was not offering Jacob anything except her presence. He was incredibly giving, loving, and patient, but Bella was only hanging around because Jacob made her feel better. She sought him out because she remembered he could probably fix the bikes, then she discovered how much he helped her deal with her pain, so she stayed. She liked him (who doesn't?), but didn't really give of herself, didn't think of him first, didn't do things merely to please him. She only did enough to keep him happy to have her around.

Bella was defensive of Jacob, so in that sense, she gave to the relationship. She didn't want him to be in pain (she said that a lot!), yet she didn't hesitate to hurt him or walk out on him when her true love needed her. She was not emotionally dedicated to Jacob; she never stopped pining for Edward.

I think the relationship--especially from Bella's point of view--is much better characterized as a dedicated friendship than perfect love. Jacob could hardly have done more to be a loving partner . . . Bella, however . . .
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:34 pm

I think you misunderstand me, or I didn't make my point clear enough. Probably the latter. I am going off the thesis that Jacob was Bella's natural path in life, had she never met Edward. So, if Edward wasn't in the mix, they'd be a perfect example. Better?

I also didn't mean their relationship as-is. I definitely meant that they complement each other, that they're very comfortable with each other, how happy Bella is when she's with him, etc. Obviously, the ideal human love isn't one in which one member is resisting the relationship itself.

Bella+Jacob (no Edward) = True Human Love
Bella+Edward > Human Love.

Make sense?
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby diane771 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:36 pm

Well said Esme Echo, around here you can't indulge in the true, because some people are just mean and nasty as Amanda.
A supernatural love is bigger and yet she bashes me for it. Again Bella and Edwards love is something you do not see. Really its not hard to see that, but to get hammer by people here, is so immature and some think if you disagree with them, your opinion doesn't mean a thing. Well I guess stating another opinion is arguing also here. Truths are misguided by your feelings and not Bella's , The movie is writen by a screen writer and you can see the charactors come to life on the big screen, the movie does not go into Bella's mind like Stephenie wrote, even Edwards. So its natural to believe in something that is not there. Fine Bella loved Jacob, and again I will say this Maybe if you really loved someone like Bella and Edward, you would see its impossible for Jacob to ever even be that close in Bella's heart and if you want to comment please try to be respectful of my opinion and not like this
And please don't ever say to someone "maybe if you really loved someone like Bella and Edward" because you know zero about the people on this board.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Let's ALL just calm down and try to respect one another, first of all. That's always the way to go.

Let's revisit some FACTS that have been stated by Stephenie Meyer herself first, okay?

1. Bella DID in fact love Jacob. She was IN LOVE with him. If there had been no Edward, that would have been it for her.
2. There IS an Edward, and Bella and Edward's love IS bigger, which is why she ended up with Edward and not Jacob.

These things we know for fact. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion. No one needs to be belittled by anyone, and I think there's a little bit of that going on both sides here.

Now, can we please move on?
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Esme echo » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:28 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I think you misunderstand me, or I didn't make my point clear enough. Probably the latter. I am going off the thesis that Jacob was Bella's natural path in life, had she never met Edward. So, if Edward wasn't in the mix, they'd be a perfect example. Better?

I also didn't mean their relationship as-is. I definitely meant that they complement each other, that they're very comfortable with each other, how happy Bella is when she's with him, etc. Obviously, the ideal human love isn't one in which one member is resisting the relationship itself.

Bella+Jacob (no Edward) = True Human Love
Bella+Edward > Human Love.

Make sense?

Ah . . . that does make more sense. One part of me does yearn for Bella and Jacob and little brown-skinned children running about. Even if Jacob wasn't a werewolf! He was a genuinely nice kid who had a gift for kindness and love. Bella would have been very happy with him if vampires hadn't existed in her world.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:35 pm

Yeah. Totally my fault on that one, I should have been more clear.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:44 pm

"Two futures, two soul mates… too much for any one person." -Bella Swan, Eclipse, Chapter 26, p.599

Bella and SM both believed that she had two soul mates. Even when she kisses Jake before the newborn battle she can see the future they could have. But...

"Jacob was right. He’d been right all along. He was more than just my friend. That’s why it was so impossible to tell him goodbye — because I was in love with him. Too. I loved him, much more than I should, and yet, still nowhere near enough. I was in love with him, but it was not enough to change anything; it was only enough to hurt us both more. To hurt him worse than I ever had." -Bella Swan, Eclipse, Chapter 23, p.528

It was always Edward for her, but she could have been happy either way. Jake even tells Edward in the tent that if he had waited a few more months he would have seen her happy and Edward agrees.

"I’m exactly right for you, Bella. It would have been effortless for us — comfortable, easy as breathing. I was the natural path your life would have taken… If the world was the way it was supposed to be, if there were no monsters and no magic…"
-Jacob Black, Eclipse, Chapter 26, p.599

"He’s like a drug for you, Bella. I see that you can’t live without him now. It’s too late. But I would have been healthier for you. Not a drug; I would have been the air, the sun." -Jacob Black, Eclipse, Chapter 26, p.599

Bella had two completely different choices, and she chose Edward. It doesn't mean that Jacob wasn't an option, and possibly a better option, but everyone has a destiny; a fate, and Edward was hers. :D
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Esme echo » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:54 pm

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, Amanda Beth, but I don't feel Bella was enough over Edward to give Jacob the total emotional commitment that would have made her sincerely happy in a marriage with him. A few months . . . maybe, but not certainly. Bella was severely damaged emotionally when Edward left. She was better towards the end of New Moon, but still a long way from healthy.

Are we discussing anything in particular, 'cause I've kind of lost the thread. I guess I'm just tired! :oops:
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby una » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Just a friendly MOD reminder about this forum and the Lex rules:

Character Discussion Guidelines:

This is a character discussion forum. All posts containing the following will be deleted or edited at the moderators' discretion:
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    No one word posts either please - this is for discussion, therefore your post should state some sort of idea, opinion, interpretation that contributes (respectively) to the discussion.

This is a serious discussion forum. Consider your posts thoughtfully. This is also not a debate forum. We are here to discuss in depth the characters of Twilight. That being said, we welcome people with various views but ask that we keep this a friendly discussion and exchange of ideas and opinions backed by facts, interpretations from the book, and/or SM correspondence/interviews, etc. We are not here to sway one another to our view but be able to openly discuss our views and opinions in regards to these characters.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to PM your local, friendly Mod.

Thanks!

P.S. I'm not sure if we should open up discussion about the "movie" Jacob just yet as it has only be out this weekend. Unless the majority of you all have seen it and feel comfortable discussing it. I know in other threads as new books, movies, etc come out, we typically give a two week "catch-up" time-line before discussing spoilers so all the thread followers have time to read/see it before getting spoiled. It also eliminates the need for using the spoiler font (invisible font...you have to highlight the text to read it). I think there are some interesting things we can do by contrasting Jacob's portrayal in the movie versus his book-related character. Why don't we take a minute to discuss a time-line for when we can claim this spread open for New Moon movie spoilers for Jacob.
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