Jacob Black #2

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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby amethyst » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:52 pm

If I didn’t see Edward’s and Bella’s love to the degree that it is, I would have agreed. But what Bella feels for Edward is far more than a normal human love. She might love Jacob too, but “not enough” . . . what “not enough” means to Bella is debateable. But I took it to mean that Bella COULD live without Jacob but without Edward she WOULD die or possibly kill herself. That's why her decision in Eclipse was predominate. We’ve seen what happens to her when she’s separated from Edward. If he ceases to exist, as she tells us explicitly over and over again, a life without Edward is her definition of hell and she simply would not be able to bear it. She was willing to give up her life, her family and Jacob for him, she was willing to sacrifice herself in Volterra if he could live, she was willing to lose an infinite number of years with the other most important thing in her life, Renesmee, because she can’t bear her life without him, having already lost him once. Yet, Jacob. She cried and wept for his loss while canoodling her beloved for approximately 8 hours and woke up like nothing ever occurred and agreed with Edward‘s declaration “I cannot live without my life, I cannot live without my soul“. And yet we would refer to her’s and Jacob’s relationship as the truest of true loves. If that isn’t an indication of how Jacob is to her next to Edward, then I don’t know what is!

And that’s beautiful, your grandparents. I guess I can say the same for my grandparents--I refer to them as “mom” and “dad”. They’ve been together for so many years. I find it endearing. My grandpa can’t deny her a thing! It’s so cute.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:05 am

As I am traveling for the holiday, I do not have my book handy. But, the quote from the movie is close enough to serve the purpose.

"Don't make me choose, Jake. It'll be him. It's always been him."

There's never been a choice. In a natural world, a world where vampires and werewolves and mystical creatures do not walk the Earth, than yes, Jake is her path. As he says, "Easy as breathing." But, what was the one thing Bella could not do without Edward? She couldn't breathe properly because that part of her was missing, gone. In the world Bella, Edward and Jake inhabit, Jake had no chance, regardless of Edward's actual presence or not. "I cannot fight an eclipse." Yes, Bella contemplated accepting Jake. But, we can't know what would have happened after that. After knowing the greatest and truest of true loves, could she accept the mere mirage of it with Jake? Could she accept the touch and affection of another after knowing Edward's all consuming love? I don't know. I don't think so. But, more importantly, I think something would have happened with Jake. While I never think of Bella as "settling" for Jake, but more like "accepting" him, I do think it is Jake who is settling for Bella, because she will never be able to love him the way she loved Edward and a part of her will always belong to Edward. And, because of that, I just can't see Bella ever giving herself completely to Jake. No matter how accepting he was of it, it would be incredibly unfair and a person can only deal with that so long.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:22 am

As a sidenote, I was wondering if say in a different world where Edward wasn't the factor he is, if Bella would be able to comfortably fall for Jake knowing that his imprint could come along at any time. I know Jake thought of Bella like she WAS his imprting, but she's obviously not. Could you love someone who by good chance may at any time fall in love with someone else? I couldn't.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Pendragon » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:58 am

Amanda Beth wrote:As a sidenote, I was wondering if say in a different world where Edward wasn't the factor he is, if Bella would be able to comfortably fall for Jake knowing that his imprint could come along at any time. I know Jake thought of Bella like she WAS his imprting, but she's obviously not. Could you love someone who by good chance may at any time fall in love with someone else? I couldn't.


Well if your just saying a world w/o Edward and there were still vampires and werewolves, then that is an interesting thing to think about. I mean we all know who Jacob's imprint is but regardless, so I guess if Bella hooked up with him she would worry about it all the time and two things could happen. 1. She would brake up with him to avoid the hurt or 2. She would eventually not worry about it if she spend a long time with him.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby swedishskinjer » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:35 am

Here is my belief:

Jacob, despite his best attempts to delude himself, was not meant for Bella, since an imprinting never happened until he glimpsed Renesmee, who was a "part" of his friend that he could watch over due to her intimate bonding with Edward. They are the closest of friends imaginable, considering that Jacob healed her "hole" during Edward's regrettable absence, but he pursued a higher relationship with Bella that was not meant for him. As she said when Jacob insisted on repeatedly crossing a line with their relationship, it was always meant to be Edward since her first step into his world. Bella's belief that she is irrevocably linked with Edward is only validated when she feels his overwhelming love for her as an immortal companion.

I know that some fans find a relationship between Bella and Jacob preferable, despite the fact that he is not human (like Edward, of course), but that's not the true love story in this series. It has always been about the forbidden love between Bella and Edward and all of the adventures that have followed. With the improbable birth of Renesmee, Jacob was able to embrace an extension of Bella, so he was not deprived of a happy ending. It's undeniable that things did work out, but not exactly in the way that he anticipated: for Jacob, a new destiny was revealed, hence the imprinting and his subsequent bonding with Renesmee, who is so much more than your average child. If you believe that destiny works its mysterious ways in the Twilight series, then you should be able to acknowledge that the pairing between Jacob and Renesmee was supposed to happen, as opposed to Jacob and Bella (who was meant to be with the Cullen family).

Jacob Black was always destined to be the close friend, but Bella's deepest feelings belong exclusively to Edward Cullen.

When some fans say that Bella can't have any fun around the Cullen family, I simply have to shake my head. Some of the funniest moments in the series would have to be the sarcastic conversations between Bella and Edward. Furthermore, a few of the most energetic characters in the entire saga are Alice and Emmett "Big Bear" Cullen, who happily embraced Bella as their sibling after the transformation. Also: VAMPIRE BASEBALL! 8-)
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby Amanda Beth » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:29 am

Just read some new Q&A from SM's website...

While writing the books, were you ever unsure of whether Bella would choose Edward or Jacob, or did you always know she would end up with Edward in the end? - Samantha V.
I wrote New Moon and Eclipse after I wrote Forever Dawn, which is pretty much the rough draft of Breaking Dawn. So I always knew Bella's destiny was with Edward, and as her relationship with Jacob evolved and deepened through the course of the middle novels, writing about it was sometimes painful. Even knowing Jacob's eventual happy ending, it was hard to put him through all the heartbreak. I do know what would have happened if Bella hadn't jumped off the cliff that day, but I always knew that was a could-have-been that wasn't the right way to go.

I'm DYING to know how SM would have had it happen, because technically if SM says this is what would happen there are no arguments lol.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:13 pm

First off, I want to say that I recognize this is merely your opinion, and I appreciate that you made that clear and I am simply hoping to offer an opposite POV, because that's why we're here right?! I would love it if you agreed with me, but you certainly don't have to and I'm not expecting it. All I'm asking is that we try to see where each other are coming from! Sorry for the disclaimer, I just wanted to avoid confusion.

swedishskinjer wrote:Jacob, despite his best attempts to delude himself, was not meant for Bella, since an imprinting never happened until he glimpsed Renesmee, who was a "part" of his friend that he could watch over due to her intimate bonding with Edward. They are the closest of friends imaginable, considering that Jacob healed her "hole" during Edward's regrettable absence, but he pursued a higher relationship with Bella that was not meant for him. As she said when Jacob insisted on repeatedly crossing a line with their relationship, it was always meant to be Edward since her first step into his world. Bella's belief that she is irrevocably linked with Edward is only validated when she feels his overwhelming love for her as an immortal companion.


I agree with you entirely here except for a few things. Stephenie Meyer herself says that if Edward hadn't become part of her life, Bella was destined to be with Jacob. So, Bella and Jacob both still feel that true human love for each other, but Bella's is overrided by her love for Edward, and then later, Jacob's is overrided by his love for Nessie. That doesn't mean that what they felt for each other was less than true love, IMO.

swedishskinjer wrote:I know that some fans find a relationship between Bella and Jacob preferable, despite the fact that he is not human (like Edward, of course), but that's not the true love story in this series. It has always been about the forbidden love between Bella and Edward and all of the adventures that have followed. With the improbable birth of Renesmee, Jacob was able to embrace an extension of Bella, so he was not deprived of a happy ending. It's undeniable that things did work out, but not exactly in the way that he anticipated: for Jacob, a new destiny was revealed, hence the imprinting and his subsequent bonding with Renesmee, who is so much more than your average child. If you believe that destiny works its mysterious ways in the Twilight series, then you should be able to acknowledge that the pairing between Jacob and Renesmee was supposed to happen, as opposed to Jacob and Bella (who was meant to be with the Cullen family).



I don't think anyone's arguing that Bella and Edward aren't the true love story in this book. But part of the beauty of the Twilight Saga, for me at least, is that there are so many facets of it that you can choose to be interested in. I choose to follow Jacob. Most people choose to follow Bella and Edward, but some just read for Bella's journey or just Edward's journey. That being said, I don't think there's anyone that doesn't acknowledge that as soon as Bella met Edward,they were meant to be. I know that when I, personally, say that I prefer the relationship between Jacob and Bella, I mean that that's the type of relationship that appeals to me more, because Jacob appeals to me more, and I like Bella better when she's with Jacob.

swedishskinjer wrote:Jacob Black was always destined to be the close friend, but Bella's deepest feelings belong exclusively to Edward Cullen.


Again, I agree that Bella's biggest love belongs to Edward, I don't think that's arguable.

swedishskinjer wrote:When some fans say that Bella can't have any fun around the Cullen family, I simply have to shake my head. Some of the funniest moments in the series would have to be the sarcastic conversations between Bella and Edward. Furthermore, a few of the most energetic characters in the entire saga are Alice and Emmett "Big Bear" Cullen, who happily embraced Bella as their sibling after the transformation. Also: VAMPIRE BASEBALL! 8-)


I know that I personally feel like Bella is very inhibited with Edward. Being with him seems to make her feel insecure and less open, until she becomes his equal - i.e. a vampire.

I definitely feel like Bella has fun around both families, the Pack is more my kind of fun.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby swedishskinjer » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:16 am

I believe that Bella feeling insecure around Edward has more to do with the fact that he's impossibly beautiful and seemingly perfect. However, as the series progresses, she does see that Edward has flaws of his own, and she slowly but surely becomes more comfortable near his presence. If you were around someone who had the stunning qualities of a vampire, then I'm sure that the overwhelming feeling of humbleness would be...awkward. It does take Bella some time, but she reaches the revelation that Edward deeply cares for her, flaws be damned.
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:23 am

Oh absolutely that's why she feels insecure around him - but she's uncomfortable, nonetheless.

How about we get back to the discussion about Jacob though - or maybe we should switch the forums, since we just had this discussion in the Bella thread!! :lol:
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Re: Jacob Black #2

Postby swedishskinjer » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:31 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Oh absolutely that's why she feels insecure around him - but she's uncomfortable, nonetheless.

How about we get back to the discussion about Jacob though - or maybe we should switch the forums, since we just had this discussion in the Bella thread!! :lol:


Yeah. Sorry.

These character discussions are so confusing. We should simply have one thread for everyone! :lol:
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