Twilight Lexicon Discussion Forums

ringswraith wrote:Just a point of clarification.

Normally in these threads, when someone mentions Jacob being Bella's "natural" partner, they mean it in the context of "they would be together if none of these supernatural elements existed."

Point being, Edward would have died in 1918, thus never meeting Bella. Jacob would not be a shapeshifter, but he'd still be alive and around Bella, and it would have been a relatively easy slide from friendship to partners.

This is something that Stephenie Meyer has mentioned and it has been referenced here many times.

Thanks for clarification . So then if it was a natural story Twilight would not exist and it would be a whole new discussion on a complete different story.

I have to say that I don't think she loved them the same. I agree Dovre that I don't understand how she could love them equally. While it is obvious that Jacob was her "natural path" (good clarification Rings), in the back of her mind I think she always knew that Edward would be the love of her life and she would never be able to love anyone as much as she did him. I hate the way it sounds but she knew that she would just settle with Jacob. It may have been the natural path but the love she had for Edward would always be there and nothing could outshine that. I have to disagree though, that she would never have chosen Jacob. I think if Alice wouldn't have come back and told her Edward was going to kill himself, AND if Edward had never made up his mind to go back because he couldn't handle it anymore, I think she would have eventually chosen Jacob. They had been through so much together and became friends and I believe that by the middle of New Moon she really was in love with him.

Selle, I have to disagree with the fact that Jacob loved Bella because of Renesmee. I personally (and this is just my opinion) don't think Renesmee had anything to do with how Jacob felt for Bella. He truly loved her, and I think she truly loved him. I don't think her feelings for him changed as soon as Renesmee was born and I don't think Renesmee was what was drawing him to Bella.

Once again this is all just my opinion lol.

vampirenerd wrote:I have to say that I don't think she loved them the same. I agree Dovre that I don't understand how she could love them equally. While it is obvious that Jacob was her "natural path" (good clarification Rings), in the back of her mind I think she always knew that Edward would be the love of her life and she would never be able to love anyone as much as she did him. I hate the way it sounds but she knew that she would just settle with Jacob. It may have been the natural path but the love she had for Edward would always be there and nothing could outshine that. I have to disagree though, that she would never have chosen Jacob. I think if Alice wouldn't have come back and told her Edward was going to kill himself, AND if Edward had never made up his mind to go back because he couldn't handle it anymore, I think she would have eventually chosen Jacob. They had been through so much together and became friends and I believe that by the middle of New Moon she really was in love with him.

I too believe that she might have eventually settled with Jacob. But I don't believe she was ever in love with him. There is a very distinct difference between loving someone, and being in love with them. Bella ALWAYS knew where her heart's true home was. Jacob was a great friend to her (at times) and she had very serious feelings for him. But, Bella always knew, for all her struggles and confusion, that there was only one man for her.

As I said, given enough time, Bella may have eventually settled with Jacob. I think it would have taken a lot more time than people think, first of all. But, my fear comes from whether or not it would work. Bella was very astute and honest with herself from the very beginning. She recognized that what she felt for Jacob was comfortable and easy, but nothing in comparison to what she felt for Edward. Once you know that kind of intense, all consuming love, can comfortable really be comforatable anymore? Can anything less feel right? I don't know. IMO, no. But, I'm wired differently than many. Bella is extremely selfless, a caretaker and nurturer by nature. She would do her best to see that Jake was always happy with her, that he never suffered. But, when you have known love that deep and had to let it go, it changes you. There would always be a part of her that compared the breathless, heart thundering touches and looks between she and Edward to the tame-by-comparison exchanges between she and Jacob. A part of her would always know that she was capable of feeling so much more than what she had. She would always know that he was her second choice. And so would he. Jacob is smart. He might try to fool himself for a while that Bella had completely let Edward go. But, he would see the remnants of her deep connection with him eventually. And, what would that do to what he thought was love for Bella?

No. In my opinion, settling is just as destructive, maybe more so, than fighting for what you know is the true course of things.

Jazz I completely agree that it wouldn't have been good for Jacob and Bella to get together. For her to settle for Jacob wouldn't have been fair for her but Bella is a self-less person. I agree that she would have spent her time trying to make sure Jacob was happy, even if she knew she would've been happier with Edward. Like I said though, I only see that happening if the whole cliff-diving thing hadn't happened and Edward had not already made up his mind to come back to her. I personally am glad that she ended up with Edward because, even though I don't like all aspects of their relationship, it was best for everyone involved. Bella would be truly happy and not just making do with what she had, Jacob would be with someone who truly loved him more than anything and of course Edward would be happy. I was never for the idea of her settling with Jacob, just think that's what would have eventually (far down the road) have happened if certain circumstances wouldn't have happened.

Jazz Girl wrote: I too believe that she might have eventually settled with Jacob. But I don't believe she was ever in love with him. There is a very distinct difference between loving someone, and being in love with them. Bella ALWAYS knew where her heart's true home was. Jacob was a great friend to her (at times) and she had very serious feelings for him. But, Bella always knew, for all her struggles and confusion, that there was only one man for her.

I don't understand how you can say this, when we're told that by the middle of New Moon, she was in love with him. Just because she always knew she was in love with Edward, and just because she never reconsidered whether she would give up Edward for him, doesn't mean she didn't love Jacob. They aren't mutually inclusive, at least to me.

Jazz Girl wrote:As I said, given enough time, Bella may have eventually settled with Jacob. I think it would have taken a lot more time than people think, first of all. But, my fear comes from whether or not it would work. Bella was very astute and honest with herself from the very beginning. She recognized that what she felt for Jacob was comfortable and easy, but nothing in comparison to what she felt for Edward. Once you know that kind of intense, all consuming love, can comfortable really be comforatable anymore? Can anything less feel right? I don't know. IMO, no. But, I'm wired differently than many. Bella is extremely selfless, a caretaker and nurturer by nature. She would do her best to see that Jake was always happy with her, that he never suffered. But, when you have known love that deep and had to let it go, it changes you. There would always be a part of her that compared the breathless, heart thundering touches and looks between she and Edward to the tame-by-comparison exchanges between she and Jacob. A part of her would always know that she was capable of feeling so much more than what she had. She would always know that he was her second choice. And so would he. Jacob is smart. He might try to fool himself for a while that Bella had completely let Edward go. But, he would see the remnants of her deep connection with him eventually. And, what would that do to what he thought was love for Bella?

If Bella had settled for Jacob, you're absolutely right. There would always have been a part of her that still loved Edward, that knew he was the one for her. But I disagree that being entirely unhappy, and completely fixated on the past would have been better for her. At least with Jacob she would have been somewhat happy. She did love him, and she did love being around him. It wasn't all pretending. When she was with him, she didn't ache the way she did alone. Everyone seems to think that if she settled for Jacob she would have been acting the entire time and inwardly the same zombie Bella, and I don't think that's how it would work.

Bella is an extremely selfless person. But I don't think it's always a good thing. She takes it to an unhealthy extreme. I think that if she were not so selfless, if she could center within herself a little more, she'd be a healthier person. She could have moved on from Edward, though there'd always be a scar, she'd always feel for him. But she could have moved on, be it with Jacob or to a happy life on her own or with Mike or Ben or Eric or anyone.

Caryn I agree with you, Bella in this story was never as truly in love with Jacob. Even if Edward never returned she wouldn't love Jacob the way she loved Edward. I also think that in the end she would have settled for Jacob. Like Charlie said in New Moon (movie) sometimes you have to learn to love what is best for you.
Now if you take Edward totally out of the equation, I don't think Bella would have gone straight for Jacob, because of his age, and if he never became a werewolf he wouldn't have aged the way he did... I think it would have taken Bella and Jacob much longer to truly love each other. but like Jacob said it would have been a natural path.

I think that you have to consider how much Edward had changed her life. before moving to Forks all Bella cared about was her mother, there is absolutely no reference that Bella was interested in guys before seeing Edward.
and as soon as she saw him, that all changed, I think you could compare it to the imprinting of the wolf. Suddenky Edward was the centre of her world...
I think the love between Jacob-Edward and Bella is most easiest to compare with Sam, Emily and Leah....
Sam too was following his natural path with Leah untill the unnatural thing crossed his path and he imprinted on Emily...

marielle wrote: Like Charlie said in New Moon (movie) sometimes you have to learn to love what is best for you.

Marielle~ Just a quick correction. Charlie says, "Sometimes you have to learn to love what's good for you." Whether Jacob or Edward was best for her is a matter of debate across the fandom. I have my opinion, which I think you share. There are those out there who think otherwise. In the end, we all know how it turned out.

marielle wrote:I think the love between Jacob-Edward and Bella is most easiest to compare with Sam, Emily and Leah....
Sam too was following his natural path with Leah untill the unnatural thing crossed his path and he imprinted on Emily...

A very interesting idea. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it makes a whole lot of sense. It also explains a lot about Leah's attitude, even outside of the confines fo the whole wolf/vampire conflict. It does make me wonder why Leah doesn't have more compassion for Bella, knowing what she does about the risks involved in that whole dynamic. Not that I think at all that the fact that it was clear that Bella was not Jacob's meant-to-be played any role at all in her choice. But, Leah knows the pain of trying to denythe kind of supernatural love Bella & Edward share.

I would think that, if Leah drew that parallel, it would make her hate Bella more. Bella's Sam, if you're going to compare the two situations. She's the one that loves two people. If anything it would make her more compassionate towards Jacob (the one left out, like her) as opposed to Bella (the one who lives happily-ever-after, with an all-consuming love so strong that she won't even be punished by guilt). And, at least Sam has to see the effect on Leah. It has to cut him like a knife every single day. She knows she's lashing back out at Sam, so he's being punished. Jacob's not lashing out. Jacob, maybe because he's a better person that Leah or maybe because he's more in love with Bella than Leah was with Sam or maybe just due to his incredible capacity for love in general, will be there for Bella however she needs him. Bella's worse than Sam because Bella gets exactly what she wants, with no loose ends. At least, that's how I would see it from Leah's eyes. But that's off-topic.

Jazz Girl wrote:HofJ~ I don't contend that she didn't love Jake. But, there is a difference in the way she loved him. Bella herself tells us, from the end of New Moon on through Eclipse and into Breaking Dawn, that there was a distinct difference in the way she loved them, and the way that she loved Jake would never be the same as Edward, would never be enough or make a difference. That is just always the reality. It's why the story is what it is. Regardless of anything and anyone else, Bella would always love Edward above and beyond all others.

Okay. No one challenged any of that, at all. What you said was that you don't believe that Bella was ever in love with Jacob, which is untrue. She was in love with both of them, and that's the basis of an entire book. It's just always the reality, just as the fact that she ended up with Edward because she loved him more (at least romantically) is always the reality. Everything you've written above is lovely and true, but has nothing to do with my point, which is that while she loved them differently, she was also in love with Jacob, just not enough.

Jazz Girl wrote:If the worst had happened and Edward not returned, I don't think that she would be ZombieBella. She clearly demonstrated that she was at least making an effort to live again. With Jake's help, she was functional, healing somewhat. But, she never would have gone back to being Bella as Bella was before Edward left. That kind of trauma, particularly the way she dealt with it (or didn't deal with it, depending on one's pov) leaves deep scars. She would do her best to be happy, to make Jake happy. But, sometimes, no matter how brave a face you put on, no matter how good the mask, sometimes, it slips. And, as I said, Jacob is not stupid, by any means. If Edward had not come back, no matter how much Jake loved Bella, or how much she was able to love him, he would always be second best, only with Bella because Edward chose to leave her life. No matter how much you love someone, that knowledge hurts like hell and can wreak havoc.

All of that is true, like I said in my post. Couldn't you say that though, about anyone who's first partner is gone? They will move on, they will love someone else. That person will always know that they loved someone before them, someone who is now gone forever, and that they would still be with that person if it wasn't for whatever act of God or Allah or whoever/whatever you believe in took them. How is it different? How is it worse?