Bella Swan Cullen #3

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14 am

Like Opulent, I am a total sucker for happy endings and am super glad that everyone got their "happily ever after". But I too have a problem with Post Bella. Even though she does seem more independent after the change, like HOFJ said, she loses all the endearing traits that made her relatable and, well, human. I think people like to imagine themselves as Bella (especially during the bed scene in EC, growl!) and that's easier to do when she is self-depreciating, clumsy and generally like a regular girl. After the change, she loses all of those things. In fact, one of the best things about Bella was her ability to poke fun at herself, which I don't remember her doing a lot of post transformation. A lot of parts in the first three books were laugh-out-load funny and I missed that in the third part of BD. But I agree with HOFJ that it was probably a writing flaw and not a character flaw. Things had to move more quickly than I think even SM wanted, just so the story could progress.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:08 am

Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade at all. We all have connections to these wonderful characters for a number of reasons. And we all react to what happens to them in different ways. And, of course everyone is entitled to their opinions. This is just mine.

But, isn't wanting Bella to have her happy ending and finally fit in the life she was meant to have, but still want her clumsy and overwhelmed and human kind of like wanting to have your cake and eat it, too, to use the phrase? Bella transformed into a creature that is wholly other than human. The physical attributes, the emotions, the thought processes are wholly other. Expecting Bella to still be completely and unchangedly Bella and calling it a writing flaw because she's not just seems a little harsh to me. Bella retains a good deal, I think, of what made her Bella. More so than I expected, honestly. She still deplores attention, sees herself as just plain Bella even in acknowledging her physical beauty, is still as self sacrifising as always, and is still as dedicated to the happiness of everyone but herself. But, at the same time, there had to be changes. She's now a vampire. And, we know a remarkably controlled one. But I always attributed that to the fact that she knew she was going to struggle to be in control and she was prepared for that. I think that is what gives her the ability to get control of the emotions that had previously ruled her. Through her transformation, she finally gained a will strong enough to master them, to discipline them. She grew up. In the end, that's what I always saw Bella's tale as; a story about growing up. Pretransformaiton, Bella was an adolescent, ruled by emotions and hormones. Granted, she was a remarkably mature teenager. But, a teenager none-the-less. In the end, we have watched her experience tragedy, loss, fear, and the greatest love ever. We have watched her grow up before our eyes until she is a wife and a mother. And, as a wife and a mother, you don't always have the luxury of time and space to think and feel. Sometimes you just have to act and hope it comes out right, doing your best to stay one step ahead of the husband and the kids. :) Of course Bella's experience changes, because Bella herself changes.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:14 am

I don't think I expressed myself correctly when I was agreeing with HOFJ regarding the "writing flaw". I'm not saying the flaw was that Bella grew up or even that she completely changed into something other than human. The flaw is that it happened too fast, which seems to be to move the story along instead of a necessity for the character. And while I agree that the story is basically about Bella growing up and becoming a wife and mother, you don't just do that in a matter of weeks. It took me about 6 months after my little girl was born to reconcile my own view of myself as a mother. Bella does it in a few days. Now, I understand that we are different people and all, and that I didn't have to deal with people coming to kill my baby and my entire family. But it just seems like it was convenient for the storyline and for SM to rush through her newborn phase and get to the nitty gritty. Bella never seemed comfortable in her skin and I think her insecurities would have been a little harder and take a little longer to put away.
I like the fact that Bella gets to become a super vixen and seems born to be a vampire. And I do like the fact that she has found her place to shine and that she finally comes into her own. I don't expect, nor would I want, her to retain certain physical characteristics that she had as a human (clumsiness especially, but her being the only clumsy vampire would have been really funny). But her self-depreciating humor and stubborness are not physical and should have remained intact even after the transformation. And I like cake. :D
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:12 pm

Yeah, I'm with Angelvamp. I don't find the flaw in that Bella becomes stronger, I found a MINOR flaw in that it all happened so quickly.

SM's not so comfortable with writing gradual changes in people. When something needs to change, there is always a catalyst for it so that it doesn't need to be described. Maybe there's not time in the books, maybe it's just too hard, maybe she just doesn't like it, or maybe that's the way the tone of the books should be, in SM's view. It's just something I've noticed, but it doesn't take away from the story, IMO.

I actually find PostBella to be a return to Bella of Twilight. Edward's disappearance in New Moon REALLY breaks her, and the effects of it can be seen in her until her transformation.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:15 am

A few comments.

I must agree that Bella was destine to be with Edward. That is the only way for her to live, even Alice saw it in her vision.

BD at least for me was rushed as well. SM seemed to have to get through to many things too quickly and for the sake of that she rushed things along when she should have jsut been a story teller and let them come as they may...

Here's a thread that might be fun to explore. What's up with Bella's obsession with Edward, seeing every detail, all those waking moments of frustration? Does this really happen? Have any of you experienced this? Insight anyone?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:27 am

The Dark Knight wrote:Here's a thread that might be fun to explore. What's up with Bella's obsession with Edward, seeing every detail, all those waking moments of frustration? Does this really happen? Have any of you experienced this? Insight anyone?


I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you mean when she first sees Edward in Twilight? Or further on in the books?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:29 am

Angelvamp wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:Here's a thread that might be fun to explore. What's up with Bella's obsession with Edward, seeing every detail, all those waking moments of frustration? Does this really happen? Have any of you experienced this? Insight anyone?


I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you mean when she first sees Edward in Twilight? Or further on in the books?


The whole first half of Twilight the book...her obsession in detail...
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:01 am

Ok, thanks for the clarification, I think I get it now. It's early and I'm not entirely caffinated. :)

I think in the beginning, both Bella and Edward were drawn to each other. I don't think it was just Bella that was obsessing. But since this is the Bella forum...
Bella just seems like an especially observant person, possibly because of her normal status as a caregiver. This trait was lamented by Edward in MS, I think. When you add a somewhat reclusive, brooding, gorgeous boy to the equation...well, I think Bella did what most girls in that school did. She was just able to take it further because she didn't have that natural instinct to run away from him, like all the other humans did. And he was being completely enigmatic, with the hateful stares the first day then the easy-going chat when he returns and all the cryptic remarks. If someone I saw on a daily basis acted that way towards me, especially if he was a total hottie, I would definitely be confused and frustrated.

In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I think something like this did happen to me, a long time ago. A guy that was in my circle of friends in high school that I didn't know too well started glaring at me and making remarks under his breath whenever I was around. I remember being confused and a little fearful. I asked my other friends about it and they just said he was weird and to just let it go. It wasn't a situation where I was attracted at all and I really don't remember how it turned out. I think everyone just ignored him and he fell out of touch.

Uh oh! I didn't just miss my chance at my Edward, did I? Booty! Well, from what I remember he was pretty creeptacular, not at all sexy like our fave vamp.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby ringswraith » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:40 am

The Dark Knight wrote:Here's a thread that might be fun to explore. What's up with Bella's obsession with Edward, seeing every detail, all those waking moments of frustration? Does this really happen? Have any of you experienced this? Insight anyone?


I think it's completely normal. We're naturally drawn to seeing little details if were genuinely interested in something or someone. Take any story with a romantic interest; characters will notice the little things: the way the girl tucks her hair behind her ear, the way his brow furrows in concentration when faced with a problem...

It's not just romantic relationships, either. We know things about our friends that no one else would. Not secrets or the like, but little things like the above. It doesn't even have to be a person; we can easily obsess over things. I know when I get obsessed over a videogame, I read all I can about it. :ugeek:
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:57 am

ringswraith wrote:It's not just romantic relationships, either. We know things about our friends that no one else would. Not secrets or the like, but little things like the above. It doesn't even have to be a person; we can easily obsess over things. I know when I get obsessed over a videogame, I read all I can about it. :ugeek:


I'm not sure I agree with you on obsession of this sort being extended to other relationships. You see what you want to see, especially with your friends or family. I had a friend in high school and we hit it off immediately and were friends for years. It took me 2 or 3 months to realize she had a lazy eye. In fact, I don't think I even realized it, she asked me why it didn't bother me. I honestly didn't notice, because her other traits were so much more important to me. But perhaps that just means I am especially unobservant.
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