Edward Cullen #6

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby diane771 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:37 pm

I think that Edward had the most personal growth was when he met Bella, she stirred things inside him that noone in his past could. She made him look at himself and her being a human in a dfferent way.Since it was the beginning of his growth I would say it was the most significant also. He never felt that he could feel love, he never thought a human would make him want to kill with such an overwhelming urge. He never thought anyone would love him for what he was, and Bella did. And his whole life then changes with this meeting of a mere human.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:00 pm

diane771 wrote:I think that Edward had the most personal growth was when he met Bella, she stirred things inside him that noone in his past could. She made him look at himself and her being a human in a dfferent way.Since it was the beginning of his growth I would say it was the most significant also. He never felt that he could feel love, he never thought a human would make him want to kill with such an overwhelming urge. He never thought anyone would love him for what he was, and Bella did. And his whole life then changes with this meeting of a mere human.


I have to agree with you here Diane. He grew the most over the period of the books. i do think that in the long run Bella will have the most growth but she does not get there in the four books. I maintain that Bella is Edward's Crusible. He has to go through fire to become worthy of her. I also maintain that he does not achieve worthiness too...can't give you that much Diane :D


Oh by the way, people that show up uninvited are"Ashes before their seventh step." What book does that come from???? :lol:

Una, to answer your question. It's hard to judge if her learns more in New Moon vs. Eclipes. To me he learns it in New Moon and put's it in practice in Eclipes...The whole he's playing the game as hard and Jacob discussion in the tent (Fire and Ice). does that help?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby diane771 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:43 pm

DK - Angela's Ashes.
Now you answer my queston to which for your many post have been avoiding a straight out answer. and I ask Why? Maybe because I am right and you can't admit it. :lol: :lol: or won't :mrgreen:
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:19 pm

diane771 wrote:DK - Angela's Ashes.
Now you answer my queston to which for your many post have been avoiding a straight out answer. and I ask Why? Maybe because I am right and you can't admit it. :lol: :lol: or won't :mrgreen:



I have answered you, but you have fallen under the spell of his good looks...Evil is never so insidious as it is when it looks good and plays nice...He's a bad boy...your lust keeps you from seeing the truth :lol:
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby diane771 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:27 pm

No your hatred is blinding the truth, just face it DK you apply human codes and ethics to a vampire, to what other species do we do that to? I can't name one, can you? whats ping? opineing? Now be a good soldier and accept defeat to me :lol: :lol:
Oh well Its really hard for me to fall for a fictional character, I'm a rather like the real thing type of woman 8-) 8-)
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:07 am

diane771 wrote:No your hatred is blinding the truth, just face it DK you apply human codes and ethics to a vampire, to what other species do we do that to? I can't name one, can you? whats ping? opineing? Now be a good soldier and accept defeat to me :lol: :lol:
Oh well Its really hard for me to fall for a fictional character, I'm a rather like the real thing type of woman 8-) 8-)


Oh sure smmer house resident...Lustful is your middle name... ;)

If I applied vampire codex to Edward I would put him down still. In truth he's not much of a vampire either...Does the word Foppish mean anything to you...Think Black Adder in the espisode with the Spainish Infanta...any way, Edward leaves me wanting and not in a good way...Now Marcus from Underworld, That's a vampire...

Santa I've been a good little solldier can you gift wrap Selen fron underworld and put her under the tree or maybe Alice insted heck both :oops:
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Esme echo » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:16 pm

May I beat the dead horse just one more time?

diane771 wrote:DK, you are missing my point completely. If someone was mauled in the woods by a bear and the bear ran off would he be repentive. I have asked you now plead with you to not use human standards and morals and societies codes and rules that apply to human on a vampire. But you refuse to do that. So unless you are willing to see Edward as non human and his basic food is human blood then we will not get any further. You can not judge him by human rules and make him repent which he does on his own, make him amend his ways which he does, and find redemtion when he does. Is that why you are treating him as a human and holding up him to our moral code of ethics, which so MANY people do not oblige to follow even though they are HUMAN and in the HUMAN Race. Don't make me come to CO now, you know you can't apply laws to something that not applicable. Edward is a vampire, Vampires are not Humans, they do not live under Human laws. Now I am not going to repeat DK I will just show up at you doors step because you are so stubborn11


I think the term "repent" is being misrepresented in this discussion. DK is right, Edward was not repentant over the murders he committed. He was SORRY, but not repentant. Repentance is a religious concept, motivated by a desire to correct a sin or transgression that distances oneself from God. Edward was definately on the fence about religion in general; he certainly wasn't trying to draw nearer to his God. In general, I would say repentance is a human option. Regardless, you can't repent for committing murder. DK is right, there is no way to make restitution--which is why murder is such a serious sin in God's eyes.

A lot of the foregoing discussion strikes me as a discussion on moral relativism. Can you compare what is acceptable for a human to what is acceptable for a vampire? Edward was living in a human environment; does that mean he had a "moral obligation" to abide by human mores and laws?

I like Edward very much; he is one of my favorite fictional characters. Because of my fondness for him, I tend to forget that Edward is a criminal: a murderer, thief, scammer, breaker-of-traffic-laws, forger . . . I'm sure I've missed a few of his less attractive "crimes." Perhaps the real question is, Why do I find it so easy to forgive and forget all those less-than-legal things Edward does to maintain his human charade? I'm not smitten with him, blind to his faults, or deliberately overlooking the truly heinous decisions he's prone to making. Am I just a literary light-weight?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:47 pm

Esme echo wrote:May I beat the dead horse just one more time?

diane771 wrote:DK, you are missing my point completely. If someone was mauled in the woods by a bear and the bear ran off would he be repentive. I have asked you now plead with you to not use human standards and morals and societies codes and rules that apply to human on a vampire. But you refuse to do that. So unless you are willing to see Edward as non human and his basic food is human blood then we will not get any further. You can not judge him by human rules and make him repent which he does on his own, make him amend his ways which he does, and find redemtion when he does. Is that why you are treating him as a human and holding up him to our moral code of ethics, which so MANY people do not oblige to follow even though they are HUMAN and in the HUMAN Race. Don't make me come to CO now, you know you can't apply laws to something that not applicable. Edward is a vampire, Vampires are not Humans, they do not live under Human laws. Now I am not going to repeat DK I will just show up at you doors step because you are so stubborn11


I think the term "repent" is being misrepresented in this discussion. DK is right, Edward was not repentant over the murders he committed. He was SORRY, but not repentant. Repentance is a religious concept, motivated by a desire to correct a sin or transgression that distances oneself from God. Edward was definately on the fence about religion in general; he certainly wasn't trying to draw nearer to his God. In general, I would say repentance is a human option. Regardless, you can't repent for committing murder. DK is right, there is no way to make restitution--which is why murder is such a serious sin in God's eyes.

A lot of the foregoing discussion strikes me as a discussion on moral relativism. Can you compare what is acceptable for a human to what is acceptable for a vampire? Edward was living in a human environment; does that mean he had a "moral obligation" to abide by human mores and laws?

I like Edward very much; he is one of my favorite fictional characters. Because of my fondness for him, I tend to forget that Edward is a criminal: a murderer, thief, scammer, breaker-of-traffic-laws, forger . . . I'm sure I've missed a few of his less attractive "crimes." Perhaps the real question is, Why do I find it so easy to forgive and forget all those less-than-legal things Edward does to maintain his human charade? I'm not smitten with him, blind to his faults, or deliberately overlooking the truly heinous decisions he's prone to making. Am I just a literary light-weight?


Great suff Esme echo, here;s my viewm=, When in Rome, live as a Roman...Right Diane?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Esme echo » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:10 pm

A convenient cliche, DK, but what if Rome's morals violate your conscience?

I'm more in favor of the idea that Edward tries to live according to his conscience. That one characteristic is probably what draws me to him. He is sincere, he is principled, (more disciplined than I am, by far!), he is self-correcting, and he exerts every effort to live up to his concept of what is right.

I am NOT suggesting Edward is perfect or mistake-free. but he sincerely tries to do what is right.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:36 pm

Esme echo wrote:A convenient cliche, DK, but what if Rome's morals violate your conscience?

I'm more in favor of the idea that Edward tries to live according to his conscience. That one characteristic is probably what draws me to him. He is sincere, he is principled, (more disciplined than I am, by far!), he is self-correcting, and he exerts every effort to live up to his concept of what is right.

I am NOT suggesting Edward is perfect or mistake-free. but he sincerely tries to do what is right.


Too some degree I agree with you...But I put this to you...have you ever been tested on a base level? Your principles or your life? i have found in my life that it is easy to say you will live to your principles until you have a crusible that has real consiquences to it...

Edward does have a path that he seems to live, But i don't know that he is living to it...Bella is love struck and we see him through those rose color glasses. So how much is true and how much is just her will telling her it's that way?
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