Chapter 13 ~ Newborn

[Jazzy]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

I think it was both destiny and choice for both couples, but in varying degrees.

For Alice and Jasper, it was mostly DESTINY. From the very first moment Alice had conscious thought, the very first vision she saw was Jasper's face. I believe it was because Jasper had DECIDED to look for her, even before he really knew what he was looking for. As SM put it, Alice and Jasper were both halves of a whole, their separate lives were not complete until they found each other. They "never were" unless they were together.

Whereas Bella and Edward would have been able to continue living without each other. If Bella never moved to Forks, and they never met, each of them would have lived their lives separately without knowing what they were missing. So their relationship was MOSTLY out of choice. It was their conscious choices and decisions to stay with each other and love each other and fight for their love that allowed them to be.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

No. He was in the midst of a battle field for almost a century. He out of everyone truly understands the importance of rules and abiding by them. He saw too much of what happened when vampires did not follow rules, and the punishment that came swiftly down on them.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?

Unfortunately, if it involves a big crowd of people, you really cannot please everyone, so sometimes ppl in power have to stand by their decisions even tho it upsets a lot of ppl.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

Carlisle would never abide by unfairness. He would never go along with the Denalis plan to kill the werewolves as the wolves were only protecting Bella at the time they killed Laurent. Even tho Carlisle have been family with the Denalis for a long time, Carlisle will be first and foremost a just, compassionate man. He will not stand for injustice.

[ForJazz926]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

I think you could argue destiny OR choice for both relationships, honestly.

For Alice and Jasper - I think they were destined to meet, but they made the decisions that led them to each other. Jasper subconsiously made a decision to find another lifestyle, and subconsiously desired love. Alice had never found a place to belong, and was searching for that. After deciding what she wanted, she saw her future with Jasper and the Cullens, because they were searching for the same thing.

With Edward and Bella, they met by chance and felt an instant connection. That connection developed into love. But if Edward hadn't been living in Forks when Bella moved there, she would be with Jacob at this point, most likely. I think destiny only takes you so far. Then choices determine the rest of the future.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

Not at all. Despite the dark side of the Volturi, if there was no law, there would be anarchy. Jasper saw firsthand what the world would look like if there was no one to intervene. There is no telling what kind of dessimation would have resulted if the southern wars continued.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?

All the time - I would hope so at least. This is the idea behind the Volturi. Both Sam and Carlisle, as heads of their families, decide to risk their lives and the lives of those family members, in order to fight the newborn army and protect the population around them. Neither know if all members of their family will survive, but they decide to fight anyway in order to protect whatever may be left.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

I don't think Carlisle acts out of loyalty to anyone, exactly...more that he acts based on his conscience and love. He didn't feel vengeance towards the wolves like the Denalis did because he knew the wolves were acting to protect human life - the same as he would have done. He respects the wolves because they are protectors, they are good at heart, and they harm no one who does not threaten the safety of humans and their families. Carlisle feels the same.

[Jadey]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Alice was searching for it, and made the decision to stay with Jasper and the Cullens. Jasper chose to live differently and came across Alice. Its a mix of decision and searching.
Bella decided to leave Renee because of Phil. She met Edward and decided to stay around to see what happens. Edward decided to stay with Bella even though he thought he shouldn't. With Edward, even though he decided he should stay away, he couldn't. And Bella couldn't keep away either. And they both instantly realised they couldn't be away from each other. They both decided on things, but couldn't stick with it because they are meant to be together. But their decisions led them = destiny. With J&A, it's choice. Alice saw in her vision what would happened, and chose to follow it.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
Jasper knows about order, rules and obeying because of being in the Military, and he knows how much you need those things, otherwise things would get messy. Without the Volturi, who knows what would happen.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
They do what's best for everyone, although they probably don't agree

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
He does whats best for the situation at the time. The Denali clan are like family to the Cullens, but they hate the wolves - who are helping them with this mess.

[akire]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

Not really! I think the love of each couple has elements of both choice AND destiny. Bella is choosing to change her life to be with Edward -- and Jasper chose to change his lifestyle as part of being with Alice. And both couples do seem destined to be together.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

No, because he has a long history with them. They may make decisions he doesn't agree with but he still has a healthy level of respect for them.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?

Absolutely. Just ask any world leader.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

I think Carlisle has the greater loyalty to the Denali clan until they set conditions that are very clearly in opposition to Carlisle's nature. It's only then that he has to choose -- and he rightly chooses the wolves, who didn't set the ultimatum.

[sazykid]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Alice and Jasper were destined to be together. Alice saw them meeting long before she knew Jasper, and when Jasper did meet her he just knew he wanted to be with her. Alice's visions are determined by choices, and there was so much time between her vision and the actual meeting with Jasper that it could only have been destiny. I think Bella and Eward are also destined to be together. Edward was uninterested in anyone else until he smelled Bella, and then he couldn't get her out of his mind. He was also forced to get to know her because he couldn't get into her mind. Alice also saw Bella and Edward together in one of her visions long before Bella and Edward fell in love. Edward could have chosen to stay away from Bella, but neither of them would have been as happy or as complete without the other.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
At this point all we know about the Volturi is that they are like royalty in the vampire world and they try to contain problems. I don't think it's odd because, although Jasper was part of the over population of newborn vampires and knew how crazy things were, the Volturi were able to come in and take control of things which would have been impressive.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
Yes I do. But those people need to remember to keep their power trip in check, because eventually it can get out of control.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
Carlisle is loyal to the Denali clan because they share a common bond and are old friends. He is loyal to the wolves because they are willing to help his family for the greater good of humans and everyone else involved. In the end though, Carlisle will side with whoever is on the side of right, because Carlisle tries his hardest to be on the good side of things.

[Dovrebanen]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
I believe that everything that happens in our lives is made up of both destiny and choice. So I think that was the case for both relationships. Bella made a choice to move to Forks and so did the Cullens. If this choice had not been made, they might not have met even if they were meant to be together. The same with Alice and Jasper. She made a conscious choice to go and find him. I think that you can't find love like in these couples based on choice alone, I believe that it was meant to be, but choices had to be made in order for it to happen. This is not very clear... But it's my thoughts anyway.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No, I think the Volturi have a lot of respect among the vampire population. They are the closest thing to royalty. And I think Jasper knows that would happen if there were no rules. I think that the rules they try to uphold are probably important, but that the Volturi has become twisted to more power abuse over the years.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
Yes, they have to. But there are limits. We see horrible things being done by leaders, in the name of the "greater good". I think we have to be very careful about these things, and not allow leaders to do whatever pleases them.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
I think that Carlisle will always do the right thing in the present situation. It does not have to do with loyalty. Him not allowing Irina to take down the pack, does not lessen his loyalty to the Denali clan. I think even he probably felt that Laurent deserved to die for what he was about to do to Bella. And of course he needs to honor the treaty with the wolves, since breaking it would mean a war and that is the last thing they need now. They need to work together.

[Tonya]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice? I think they are both Destiny. It's why Bella can't be with Jake. She was made for Edward.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No he was "raise" to think of the Volturi as the nobles of there kind.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
Sad but true

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
He's just a loyal to both. Laurrent was not part of there clan he chose to leave and try to kill Bella the wolves did nothing wrong and the Denali's should understand that.

[you.are.my.heroin]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper and Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Alice saw and waited for Jasper and Jasper felt Alices love, in a way they were both looking for each other and were exactly right for each other. Bella had no idea in coming to Forks that she would find the love of her life, and Edward couldn't read this new girls mind but still wanted her. I think they're both destiny.

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
Nope, but I don't fully understand why.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
Yep.

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
He's loyal to both. Laurrent wasn't part of the Denali clan his loyalty still layed to Victoria and he tried to kill Beall who Carlisle sees as his daughter, but the wolves saved her.

[furrynfun]

Has anyone else noticed the similarities with Jasper's story in Twilight and Bill in True Blood? They were both turned into vampires during the Civil War, by beautiful women they thought to be harmless. Neither of them stayed with that same women.

[openfire]

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
I think it's both. I think you have a choice in all of your decisions, including who you fall in love with. But both Edward & Bella and Alice & Jasper are perfect for one another, almost like they were made for each other. So technically, yeah I think it was destiny that they met each other, but they still had a choice. Bella didn't have to come to Forks, Alice didn't have to wait for Jasper in the bar etc. I love the love between Alice & Jasper, and they are defo my favourite couple after Edward & Bella. Especially, in New Moon when Bella and Alice arrive back from Italy and Alice goes to Jasper and they just look at each other...that makes me go weak at the knees everytime! Going a little off topic here whoops...

2. Do you think it’s odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No, because the Volturi are, like Edward said, like royalty. They should be respected. I think we are all biased towards teh Volturi because of Bella's view of them. I don't particulary like them, but I can see why Jasper and the others respect them, and think highly of them.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the “greater” good?
Yeah, as long as they are for the "greater good".

4. Discuss Carlisle’s loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
I think he is loyal to both of them. I think that, if either the Denali's or the wolves asked for help, Carlisle would say yes straight away. I don't think he'd nessassary hold a grudge to any of them, even if they refused to help him. He respects their decisions.