Gen X---The Thirty-Something Thread

[BlueStarlight]

Why do you think the younger generation feels like the world owes them everything?
Younger generations have a lot more: most people in western countries make childs only when they have enough money to raise them like little princes so the kids grow up without knowing how hard it is to get something.

This is a touchy subject with me, and I have strong opinions about it. That's why I haven't replied; however, I couldn't pass up your comment, Dimber. This is just my opinion, so everyone read it as so.

I really have to disagree here. I have several friends who waited years, some almost a decade after marriage, to start a family. Then I had friends who had honeymoon babies. It's all in what you want. Personally, I think it is WISE to wait until you are financially stable to start a family. This includes having a steady job, a place to live, and the budget to afford the necessities of child-caring after the baby is born. If the two of you cannot survive on your own, why on earth would you bring a child into the mix? There can be so many unknowns with pregnancy; what if something happens to the mother or child during that nine months? If you do not have something set back in Savings to cover "what ifs," then you're up a creek! Obviously, you cannot prepare for everything, I'm just making a point. While it is true that a lot of people spoil their children, I don't honestly think the parents do it so that their child will never have to know how to work for something. We cannot judge someone whom we know nothing about. There could be any number of reasons why a parent wants to provide nicer things for his children, things the parent grew up without. There is nothing wrong with wanting to provide the best within your means for your child.

As a matter of fact, I had this discussion just last week with my mom. Dimber, I forget what country you live in, obviously it's not here in the US. Mom and I talked about the financial aspects of bringing a child into this world. Here in the US, there are many things to consider- most states, if not all, require health insurance on the little one; Day Care in my area for an infant 0-12 months old is $110 a week; if you choose to do so, Private schools are costly. With our economy the way it is, everyday necessities are getting more expensive...diapers, formula, food, medicines. Without a doubt there are ways to cut corners and save on items, but the overall idea is that it takes a LOT to raise a child in this day and age. I certainly do not think it is selfish of a couple to wait until they are financially sound enough to have a child. In fact, I think it's irresponsible of a couple who has no foundation to have a child- there, I said it.

As for the question itself- I personally think that the fault lies with the parents. As the parent, you are responsible for teaching that child discipline, manners, and social skills. It is your job to teach your child the value of hard work and the rewards it brings. Growing up, I had chores to do around the house; I had a weekly allowace, too; no chores=no allowance. Later, in my teens, I babysat. If I wanted something beyond the necessities that my parents would buy, then I had to save my money and get it myself! Youngsters think everything should be GIVEN to them because they were never taught how to work to EARN it.

[Goodnight Elizabeth]

BSL: I agree completely. My neighbors have 2 kids. They can't afford to buy heat this winter. Their power went out when mine did. They had a generator to heat their place, but didn't know how they were going to eat. Meanwhile, the oldest boy who is 9 gets a $10 allowance every week. He made the honor roll and his parents gave him $100. He has every game system, a new game every week, a four wheeler, 3 bicycles, his own tv, dvd player, and a new dvd every week. He has one chore - to feed the dog. For Christmas he was given altogether close to $200. I recommended it be put into savings. Nope. He bought games and toys...even though he already had new games and toys.

[dimber]

Blue Starlight I absolutely agree with you. I didn't mean that everyone should have kids regardless the economical condition. Raising a child without money is cruel. Trying to give your child what you couldn't have is, on the contrary, a wonderful thing, but when I say this I think of the best education, health care, chances to travel and know the world...this is good, extremely good. But waiting to have the money to buy a tv screen for each room of the house, to give the kids hundreds of dollars to buy expensive toys, cell phones and this kind of stuff has nothing to do with preparing them to face life properly. I'm waiting to have children myself, but I'm waiting to have the money to give them a good life not to buy them all the things they want. I guess kids are smart enough to appreciate the parents' efforts and grow up the proper way but, as you say, it all lies with the parents.
I hope I have clarified my position...I didn't mean to judge anyone. My words were referring to those people who think that money and things can buy everything, even their kids love. I see it with my students everyday. Some of them come to school with expensive clothes and electronic toys but they don't know how to behave and create a sound relationship with other kids. All the chances you can give your children are wasted if all you give them is money.

Anyway, I absolutely agree with you on the necessity of being responsible when deciding to have kids, especially in this time of crisis. In Italy, where I live, the situation is getting worse and worse but, from what I hear, things are difficult everywhere. We are lucky because we have public health but salaries are very low. Most of our children are not prepared to face such a crisis, as many of the young parents are...but I'm sure these hard times will teach everyone to see everything, money and material things included, from another perspective.

[BlueStarlight]

Dimber~ I did not take offense to your post. I agree with you, too, about buying outlandish material things for kids these days. Do you REALLY need a 56" plasma in a teen's room? Man, I wasn't even allowed to have a radio in my room until I was a teen! The only electronics we had were the original Atari gaming system, and my brother had a "boom box." I just don't understand the mentality. My former Pastor used to call it "keeping up with the Joneses," that state of mind that you had to have what your neighbor had in order to look good. Whatever. I'm glad my parents didn't do that with us. I do understand that with some it is a status thing. You have a certain lifestyle, and you must keep it up, so you have the latest in everything. Again, there's nothing wrong with having the latest in whatever, if you have the means to afford it. I've seen it, too...kids with personalities and manners of dust, yet expect to be treated like royalty because their parents hold some position or have a well-paying job.

One of the sweetest kids in a class I had in DayCare was the son of a Pharmacist and Nurse. He always answered me with a "yes ma'am" or "no ma'am," helped others clean up toys, just all-around nice. One of the worst hellions I'd ever had in a class was the son of a Dental Assistant and a small business owner. I got lip from him every dang day about taking a nap..."My mama said I didn't have to take a nap, and you can't tell me what to do." EVERY DAY! This mom used Chuck E. Cheese's as a reward for good behavior at DayCare. Two boys, parents with well-paying jobs, different ends of the spectrum. Talking to the boys' parents was like night and day. Aggravating. I'd like to see them when they hit their teens and see how they turn out.

[una]

That is exactly it! It's the parents, the parents personalities and what they value. I've seen fantastic, well behaved, happy, respectful, responsible children from all walks of life as well as little spoiled hellrens from all walks of life. My hubby and I have waited to have children. It's not a question of spoiling, it's like you both say Dimber and BlueStarlight, it's being able to afford keeping them clothed, fed, etc. Sometimes I'm worried that we may have waited to long and that ship has sailed. We struggled when we were first married financially and have had moments where we had to cut back. In this current economy, I'm thankful I only lost one job and my part-time one at that.

But to me, the sticking point is the values that seem to be lacking in the majority of today's youth. Grr... I should stop here, I could rant all day.

[dimber]

Since we are talking about the younger generations, today's breaking news in the city I live in was a 13-year-old student who stabbed one of his teachers. I'm shocked, utterly shocked!
There must be something wrong with a whole generation of parents: I cannot believe a kid with a proper education and parents' care could do something like this on his own.

[revrag]

Ok, have to throw my two cents in here...and it really is only worth just that. I have to say that while I agree whole heartedly that a lot of this generations problems stem from parenting, but it also has A LOT to do with choice.

Example: ME! (Well, I'm not saying I'm an example, example, just use my life as an example.)

I grew up in poverty. I was passed around from home to home, never feeling like I had a home of my very own...because I didn't really, until I took part, with my husband, to create one. My mother, a paranoid schizophrenic, was institutionalized most of my young life. I've no idea who my father is because he took advantage of my mother one night in a bar...and here I am. My siblings were all 10 years plus older than me, so needless to say, I didn't have the opportunity to stay with them, at all. In foster homes I was beaten, and much, much worse. I could go on and on about how many times I was served disappointment and heartache, like the time I came home as 9-years-old and found my home completely empty of all our belongings and had to curl up and wait in the dark on a cold floor for someone, anyone to come for me...they never did.

I seriously have so many experiences I don't care to remember and trials I wish I never had.

Now, as an adult, I have "experts" tell me that I'm an exception to the rule. That I have an "excuse" because, well look at my life...all that I've been through....if I were to have a lapse in judgement now it would be more than reasonable, but expected.

I wasn't taught to be polite, to give a damn about anyone else, to be anything other than poverished and simple. But I am polite, I give to my community and cherish my family and neighbors, while I'm not wealthy, I'm happy and have enough. I take pleasure in the smiles and laughter of my children and see good in the world.

I don't see my life having turned out for the best because of something my parent did or didn't teach me. I see my life having turned out for the best because of the choices I made to get here. Because I had a sense of right and wrong and because no one ever gave me a break. I had a desire for the very best of ALL things and didn't allow myself to settle for anything but.

So maybe I really am the exception to the rule. As parents, we need to be less understanding and more understanding, and I know that doesn't make sense at all, but let me explain. We need to look more at what is actually happening with our children and instead of trying to understand where they're coming from, look at the facts and make them see them as well.

If I got a bad grade, I would say, don't look at the life I've lead and find an excuse for that bad mark. Would doing that make the grade any less bad? No, a bad grade is a bad grade...period. We need to tell our kids this and let them know we expect more from them because we care and know they are capable. Not give them an excuse to fail. Because even though they have been born into a troubled world, they can be part of the solution.

I don't know what I've gotten myself into here. I'm dreadfully tired and do have a screaming toddler in the background I need to tend to. But consider this, wouldn't we be doing a service to our young people if we offered tougher love and taught sacrafice and service instead of a quick buck or it's better to receive than to give?

[bac]

Absolutely revrag! I totally agree that each individual makes choices. To teach that choices have consequences and rewards. In the example of a bad grade...you study/do your homework/prepare=good grade (or better than what you were getting)....you choose to barely show up to class/occasionally do your homework/don't study=bad grade (or not as good as you are capable of). I have tried to show my kids that their individual choices matter and that they have an impact on their own lives as well as the lives of others around them. Parenting is hard.

revrag, I am impressed by your life. I can't imagine that kind of difficult childhood. And I am glad you were/are an exception. You have shown that individual choice makes a difference and, most importantly to me, because of your choices you are now able to make the lives of those around you that much better. Your husband and children would not have the lives they have now if you had not made the choice to be who you are. You are giving your children a better life than you had and in turn they may be able to give their children a better life too so that each generation is better than the one before. If you had not chosen to change your life and make it better then your children would not have had that opportunity. I commend you on breaking the cycle of using excuses to lead a half life instead of a full one.

[una]

I admire your strength Revrag and I agree with you. Except, I don't think of you as an exception. I agree we all have the ability to make choices. You chose to rise above what you experienced, you made the decisions to not follow in the footsteps/example that was set before you by those that were supposed to care and nurture you. Somehow you knew that their example (their treatment of you) was wrong. It is unfortunate that your path was such a difficult one. Maybe that is why they considered you an exception - it takes unparalleled strength and courage to break from the examples set before you and trudge your own way.

But this is why I get frustrated, parents should be loving and nurturing but in that love there is teaching right and wrong and that there are consequences to your actions - both positive and negative. So that as the child grows they learn to evaluate their options and make good choices. I laugh a bit, my godsister when trying to guide her daughter to making a right decision (like do not touch the phone or put that down, it's not a toy) when she follows direction - my godsister always say, "You've made a good choice, what a big girl you are." It's exactly like you said Revrag and what some of us have lamented about - children should learn that things are earned. I grew up being taught if you want something, it should be worth the work to achieve it. Nothing is free. It is that lesson that I worry that a good portion of our youth are not learning - that hard work is rewarded and it is the things you work for that are the sweetest reward.

[dimber]

Revrag your life is quite impressive: I admire your strength and attitude to life.
I agree with you when you say it's all a matter of individual choices and you've been lucky in managing to find your own path in life. But not all the kids are strong enough, and I still think that education and life experience with family and friends have an impact in everybody's life...in your case, you reacted and found your balance. Unfortunately, not all the kids succeed in this. For example, today, one of my students, usually polite to teachers and other children, for the umpteenth time insulted one of our foreign students and started a fight. I don't think at 12 he came to think that people from western Europe are all bad on his own. In such cases, family is all that matters,regardless the extent to which teachers or other people intervene in the kid's education.

Now, just to cheer up the thread...I have wonderful news: boyfriend and I found a magnificent 3-bedroom apartment and decided to buy it. We are going to apply for a mortgage tomorrow: fingers crossed everybody, please!!! As soon as we - hopefully - settle down everything I'll post some pics...I can't wait: it's so beautiful!