Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby corona » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:59 pm

Alphie,

Of course, the Guide, I had forgotten. It was very good, by the way, especially the backstories.

Think of all the thousands of questions concerning vampire sex that have been posted, though, and how that would pretty much come to an end if the details were ever known. Worse, imagine if SM had let you in on the details but didn't want to publish them; you'd have to keep silent while the rest of us flail about. Hmm, maybe that would be kinda fun for you.

I think Smitten's right on the internal consistency part, and SM even amplified that in interviews by discussing how humans are so inadequate to the vamps, even with our modern technology in weaponry. Thinking of how miraculously strong their flesh is, it is difficult to dial it back for Nessie as a hybrid. I think it is a question of scale. Half a superman would still be a superman to a human. I don't seriously think, though, that SM is going to create that kind of a docking problem for Jacob and Nessie, so I think she will slyly show us how it is possible. She obviously has to have mostly human membrane in some areas, or she wouldn't be able to absorb nutrition from human food.

Edward wanting her to wait and have a choice sounds logical, it's just my own difficulty picturing stories after BD. But, yeah, it's obvious Edward isn't going to be very complacent about these issues.

SM seems to like placing her stories in the here and now, though, even in The Host. She dabbled in a little SF, but not much, at least as far as technological detail (Fire World, Flower World, Heal and Seal medicine, very basic stuff), she is more story oriented. So if she writes a story about 18 year-old Nessie, it would be in 2024. I wonder how comfortable she would be writing a story more than 10 years into the future?
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby smitten_by_twilight » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:28 pm

corona wrote:So if she writes a story about 18 year-old Nessie, it would be in 2024. I wonder how comfortable she would be writing a story more than 10 years into the future?


Technically true. But, counting Nessie as born in 2006, she is probably physiologically mature enough for *ahem* a mature relationship right now, and we know that she was born mentally quite mature - she seems to have been adding skills, rather than having traditional neurological development. And when a girl thinks she's ready .... ;)
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby marielle » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:33 am

smitten_by_twilight wrote:Technically true. But, counting Nessie as born in 2006, she is probably physiologically mature enough for *ahem* a mature relationship right now, and we know that she was born mentally quite mature - she seems to have been adding skills, rather than having traditional neurological development. And when a girl thinks she's ready ....

Yes, and added to that, that Ness propably has to deal with hormones... if she is anything like her mother in that department Edward can throw a hissy fit all he wants about Ness waiting till she is eighteen it just aint going to happen...

corona wrote: I don't seriously think, though, that SM is going to create that kind of a docking problem for Jacob and Nessie, so I think she will slyly show us how it is possible.

I'm not sure SM is willing to discus docking issues into any dept in a book. she has always kept her stories decent and without much docking so it will be age approved...
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby corona » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Nessie just had her fifth birthday, so I would assume she is physically somewhere around the age of 15 or maybe closer to 16, so that is technically old enough. However, I don't think SM would want to be treading in those waters, simply because she doesn't have to, she can set it later in time.

There are actually two futures for Nessie, the one that is open to a discussion of possibilities, and the one that SM will set in concrete if she ever writes about it. So while we may entertain the possibility of things starting to get complicated here and now in 2011 in a world where their characters are free to make their own choices, SM is still the one who can step in at any time and set their paths.

It's one thing to consider the possibilities from a disinterested viewpoint, and another thing to actually put your story down on paper and make it real. And thinking about this, I wonder in the fanfic world what the average age of Nessie was before she started sailing with Jacob, and what the earliest fanfic age actually was? I suppose if I had to write one myself, I might choose 10 as the very earliest age I would consider, and I still would probably be uncomfortable with that. Theoretically I can entertain the possibility of something happening within the next couple of years, but as a writer I would give a lot more consideration to not pushing that particular envelope too far.

HOWEVER (and here I will contradict everything I just said :blush: ), Stephenie has played around with this before, notably in The Host. I suppose you could compare Wanda to Nessie in that regard, and I wonder whether she was thinking of Nessie as she was wrapping up Wanda's story (if you've read the book, you'll know exactly what I mean).
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby smitten_by_twilight » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:11 am

corona wrote:And thinking about this, I wonder in the fanfic world what the average age of Nessie was before she started sailing with Jacob, and what the earliest fanfic age actually was? I suppose if I had to write one myself, I might choose 10 as the very earliest age I would consider, and I still would probably be uncomfortable with that. Theoretically I can entertain the possibility of something happening within the next couple of years, but as a writer I would give a lot more consideration to not pushing that particular envelope too far.

HOWEVER (and here I will contradict everything I just said ), Stephenie has played around with this before, notably in The Host. I suppose you could compare Wanda to Nessie in that regard, and I wonder whether she was thinking of Nessie as she was wrapping up Wanda's story (if you've read the book, you'll know exactly what I mean).


I remember thinking something similar when I finished The Host, but I've only read it once, so I can't quite call the comparison to mind. But along the lines of Nessie not sailng with anyone until she is around 10 years old ... I think you are looking more through Edward's eyes than Nessie's. Sexual interest has an awful lot to do with physical development. I just don't find it plausible that she would wait that long. Based on her parents and grandparents, we have no reason to think that she would be a very late bloomer in that area, and most girls not significantly influenced by religious beliefs tend to lose their virginity before age 20, sometimes well before. SM seems to think 18 is about the right age for your hormones to start kicking into overdrive, so the next year or two would (in Twi-world) be ... interesting for all concerned.

It is interesting to think about this from a canon perspective. Nessie's future was left very open and there is no clear need for her to want Jacob as a partner, although plenty of reasons why she might incline that way. Bella seems unlikely to teach that marriage must precede sex but would Edward? What about peer influence - Nessie could attend public school for a couple of years and blend in quite well. Marriage at age 6 seems a little restrictive for an immortal and Nessie lacks one of Edward's reasons for becoming a 107 yo virgin, namely the mind reading. Personally I doubt that Carlisle never played around before meeting Esme - those girls in Denali! - nor Jasper before meeting Alice, nor Emmett prior to transformation. Hmm. Someday I may write up Carlisle meeting the Denali ladies circa 1800 and being assaulted before his eventual escape.... But I really hope SM revisits Twilight at some point!
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby VirginiaMay » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:37 pm

Just popping to see what's going on in the gutter. Hi!!

The Nessie conversation is one I'm glad you all have kept mostly clean. That one squeaks me out. In fact, I've played with a post-BD future where they have no ship to shore relationship at all. Taking that whole conversation that Jacob and Bella had about Quil & 2 yr old Claire, it could be possible. Right?
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby smitten_by_twilight » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:54 am

Sure. Jacob's role is to be what Nessie needs, right? What if she tends to need him as an older brother figure? Jacob could end up as the 108, and counting, year old virgin. And happy to boot. Boy oh boy ....
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby marielle » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:57 am

smitten_by_twilight wrote:Sure. Jacob's role is to be what Nessie needs, right? What if she tends to need him as an older brother figure? Jacob could end up as the 108, and counting, year old virgin. And happy to boot. Boy oh boy ....


I'm not sure... Jacob is still fairly human and is ruled by hormones... as will Nessie be...I don't think Jacob doesn't have to worry about being the only captain that hasn't docked...
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby corona » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:06 am

VirginiaMay wrote:Just popping to see what's going on in the gutter. Hi!!

The Nessie conversation is one I'm glad you all have kept mostly clean. That one squeaks me out. In fact, I've played with a post-BD future where they have no ship to shore relationship at all. Taking that whole conversation that Jacob and Bella had about Quil & 2 yr old Claire, it could be possible. Right?


Yup. Although even Jacob sounded like Q&C as a couple would be a given, but the possibility is there. Other remarks by SM in interviews makes it sound like Jacob and Nessie will become a couple. Nessie really doesn't have many options. It's possible for her to date other humans, but I can't see anything that would be long-term.

As far as Nessie and her actual chronological age, yeah, she is a mess of contradictions right now. A rapidly maturing body and mind, but chronologically still very, very young right now. By the time she is 7 she will be fully mature, but with a life experience deficit. And no matter what the internal consistency of the story says, many people still have a difficult time wrapping their minds around the concept of a mature adult who is only 7. At the same time, though, at 18 she will have lived in that mature body for over 10 years.

Internal consistency would dictate that Nessie isn't going to be waiting around much past 7 (and may already be thinking about certain things), but that heightens the creeptitude factor for a lot of fans. Drag it out until she is actually 18 and that creeptitude factor goes away, but then the internal consistency starts taking a hit. And I tend to think that one of the reasons why SM made her growth so quick was because she didn't want to set their story another 18 years into the future.

Split the difference, and you come up with 12 1/2. Send her to high school at age 10 as a sophomore, give her some Mike Newton type interaction, throw in a little Nahuel, and then have her graduate and choose Jacob.

I think a lot of it depends on how SM wants to handle Nessie's hormonal phase. She is going through it right now...or not. If she is, then everything could also be going haywire with her accelerated growth. SM could just as easily handle it by saying this isn't happening right now, since everything works the way she says it works, according to the story she ultimately wants to tell. If she is physically feeling like a 15 or 16 year-old, then she isn't going to be waiting another 10 years. But SM could just as well say that she isn't. One major point in favor of that is that if Nessie is actually like a 15 or 16 year old right with a speeded up clock, just think about how her cycles would be going; instead of once a month she may be having them every couple of weeks. If SM wants to slow down that aspect of Nessie, all she has to do is sync her closer chronologically to humans in that regard. That may not make immediate sense, but it gets SM over some story problems, and Nessie is a unique individual.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Postby Openhome » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:53 pm

After reading all the Nessie thoughts, I can understand why SM decided to go with Mermaids or aliens again. She kinda wrote herself into a rather risqué corner there!
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