Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 1

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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:10 pm

GrayceM wrote:Yes, but at this point, Claire is only two and Quil is probably similar to Jacob as being 25 physically but average about 16 years old. Won't the entire tribe, whether or not they know about the shape-shifting, realize that these kids aren't aging past this point in their lives? Sure they begin to age again when they quit phasing for a while, as explained but, that could be years. Were only the Council members supposed to know?


They all seemed to know the legends, but believed that they are just that - legends. I think the only ones who took it seriously were the elders, because they had seen the change in their grandfathers. There's no suggestion that the whole tribe knew about that, though. Whether or not they would tell every member of the tribe what is happening now would be debatable, especially in this day and age, as betrayal by a member of the tribe would be a possibility. Imagine the publicity you could get!

Because the boys have aged so much no one will probably notice that they are not ageing further for about another decade. In the old days, this was probably enough time to scare off any vampire menace and learn enough control to stop phasing for a long period, which would start them ageing again. I'd say this is still probably the intention of all the wolves bar Jacob, who now has a vested interest in living forever. I'm guessing that once the Cullens leave Forks, he will go too, and continue moving around with them so people don't know he's not ageing. Once the Cullens are removed from Forks, the vampire danger in La Push would probably only become a rare thing, giving the wolves a chance to stop phasing and return to normal life

GrayceM wrote:And come to think of it, were the elders watching these "boys" to see if there were any signs since they knew that vampires being close would bring on the change? They knew what the Cullen's were supposed to be, and he seemed to believe it, at least in the Twilight movie version. Why wouldn't they have had some sort of warning... Jacob tells Bella that it took Sam two weeks to calm down enough to change back...so why wouldn't the council have pulled them all aside and told them to at least recall the "legends of their tribe to sort of forwarn them it was a possibility. Didn't one of them (Billy, I think) mention that they had seen it happen when they were a child? And Quil's grandfather...


From what the guide said I think that they (Billy at least) were hoping it wouldn't happen to their sons. Maybe they thought the Cullens wouldn't be around long enough to cause the change. They probably would have noticed Sam's absence. Perhaps that was why Old Quil went to see him, to see if there were any signs of the reason for his disappearance. There were, so they told him what had happened to him. After that, it was a foregone conclusion that more boys would follow, especially Jake, which is why Sam is watching him so much.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby The Real Alice Cullen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:08 am

Hi everyone!!
Welcome to Bella’s Birthday! We’ve been a little busy with the girl’s birthdays this year because Renesmee is now driving! Everyone but Edward and Bella are thrilled with this new development. To celebrate her Cullen “coming of age” birthday, we all got her car related items. Except Jacob who got her a Harley. Edward refuses to speak to him, but Renesmee loves it! If you want to see our gifts to Renesmee, go here. You can post your gifts to the girls there as well! The mods are allowing images today!
Perhaps something fun for Renesmee and calming for Bella would be best. Remember, Renesmee is a driving teen now, and they all need a little help.
What we need you Lexers to do is help Bella and Edward feel a little better about both Bella’s and Renesmee’s 5th birthdays. Their little girl is growing up, and it’s hard for them to let her go.
Please go to the Birthday Wishes thread to wish Bella and Renesmee a happy birthday. And then, if you find the perfect gift for Bella or Renesmee, please post it on the Birthday Gift thread. The first page tells you how.
I hope to see you all at the Birthday Thread!
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:39 pm

Evening all. I thought I would swing in and post some thoughts. As you know, we got the BD Trailer today (I had to link to that one. Linking to the HD YouTube version with a very different still would have driven me over the edge). I wanted to love it. I needed to love it. But, right now, I'm just... sad. Yes, we have some beautiful RobWard. We have GroomWard and HeadboardBreakingHoneymoonWard. We see action and we see how the story deepens. But, in all honesty, what the trailer is showing is killing me. What I see is a story where the mongrel continues to be portrayed as the long-suffering, self-sacrificing hero determined to help is friend, and where Edward is the overbearing monster, forching Bella into things she doesn't truly want and only concerned for himself. It kills me that that... that... woman continues to get away with completely altering the story, changing how the characters are presented, altering the emotional dynamics of scenes to allow her own bias to come shining through. A poster on another board even asked if it was Jacob's baby for gods' sake!!! I get it. Jacob has a role in this film, in this part of the story. But, for the love of all that is holy, all I see is him being allowed to step forward and constantly supercede Edward's role over and over again, even more so than he does in the book. He's cast as the protector, the concerned one, battling for Bella's safety, while Edward is shown only worrying about how everything plays out for him when we KNOW that everything was the exact opposite, that nothing in that characterization is remotely close to the reality of the story.

Clearly, Rob's & Kristen's performances are going to be fantastic. That much is clear. Edward's joy during the wedding, as Bella says her vows just makes my heart melt. His anguish and terror at possibly losing Bella breaks me. But, the almost final scene, as we see Bella fall and him rush to catch her... good gods it wrecks me completely. Bella's determination to protect her baby is blinding. And her fierceness in defending her choice is equally so. But, honestly, that is all that is even keeping this film in my mind of seeing in the theater. I don't even know if I'll be able to do that because I know I'll be grinding my teeth so hard and growling at the screen so often, I'll likely explode and start hurling soda, popcorn and small children at the screen. I just... I don't know, guys. I'm so torn right now. I'm going to go try and curl into my happy place with some fanfic and maybe my outlook will be brighter in the morning. Right now, I just feel... let down.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:09 am

Goodness, Jazz Girl, I didn't get that at all! It was everything I was hoping for! I didn't think Jake featured that much, except when he said goodbye to Bella, and that's from the book, so that's fine. He wasn't near her in any post-conception shots. I thought it was excellent, and if the movie is like that, I will be satisfied. I liked what they showed of Bella and Edward pregnancy-wise. They had a fight, but I can still see the love. Edward touches her belly (possibly hearing Renesmee for the first time!), Edward catches her when she collapses, Edward is looking after her all the way. The only time we see Jacob in the house is in the shot from that ComicCon scene with Carlisle and Esme, and when he first blames Edward for Bella's condition (and that's online with the book) the rest of the time he's elsewhere doing pack stuff.

That person who thought it was Jacob's baby is a nut. Bella's obviously marrying Edward, making love to Edward, and it's Jacob's baby? That's ridiculous!
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Emmettroselover » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:16 am

@ Jazz Girl I actually really enjoyed it. Sure Carlisle's hair is ridiculous in most of it and the makeup is ridiculously pale, except for Bella's which was amazing for showing how weak she was, but the rest was great. Like Tornado said, the Jacob scenes were things from the book so if there is an issue, it should be with SM's portrayal and not Summit's or MR's. I, for one, am very happy that Jacob actually kept on his shirt....maybe all the shirtless nonsense will end now and it will only be done when truly necessary and not to show off Taylor's stomach....and that the scenes with Jacob were not over the top. Sure they showed scenes with Jacob, but they have to in order to cater to his fanbase as well. Twilight Lexicon's shot by shot really breaks it down and gives us a better look at things so maybe once you look at it again you might see just how much it shows of Edward and Bella. They have to keep in the Jacob stuff. I am not a fan of it and I think it has probably irked people more because they hyped up so much of the triangle and made NM and Eclipse a Jacob love fest, but they seem to be doing BD justice so far. A lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth because of how TL and Jacob were worshiped in the past films, but that should not take away from this one. The Jacob overload was not present in this trailer and I thought it looked pretty great. Only time will tell if the film is just as great because we have seen what hype does to these films....Eclipse was extremely hyped and a letdown for me....but for now I am happy with the trailer!
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:45 am

I've only seen it once so there was only one scene in the trailer that annoyed me that featured Jacob and that was when he told Sam that he'd have to go through him to get to Bella, other then that, I thought Jacob in the trailer was somewhat tolerable. Though, if I think about it, my lack of annoyance with Jacob in the trailer might have to do with me being kinda ticked off at the laptop I was using because the touchpad kept shrinking the screen while I was on, and I have having some problem's with a Facebook app not loading.

Summit really has their work cut out for me to even consider spending money to see it in theaters because at this point my only plans are to buy it on DVD.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Chernaudi » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:30 am

I have to agree with Tornado and ERL in this instance, Jazz. It's not as bad as I feared, though the film may be different when viewed in whole.

And one thing that's always made me think, though this is more for part 2: Aro talked about mankind having weapons that can put humans in a position to fight against vampires and what not? Do you think that a threat of the Volturi's vehicle convoy being carpet bombed by B-52s and B-2s and stuff like that would stop them from confronting the Cullens? I do think that the Volturi themselves would survive the bombings unless something would set their venom ablaze, but I don't think that a normal aircraft bomb would do much damage, no matter how many of them would get dropped on them.

I know that that question is best reserved for part 2 of BD, but those comments by Aro always irked me--is he afraid of humans trying to us ICBMs and hydrogen bombs against the Volturi, or is he using it as an excuse to keep control?
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:40 am

Rebecca, I don't want to give things away, but someone gave something to me away just recently. The scene you mentioned may not be exactly what you think it is. I'm not going to say anymore in case I give away too much.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby corona » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:22 am

I thought the trailer was pretty good myself. Even Bella's scream was there at the end, but it wasn't much of a scream, was it?

I do see JazzGirl's point. JazzGirl, you are going to feel better about it today, don't worry, it's just a trailer.

Jacob does come off well in the trailer, but then he also came off well in the book, mostly. That was because a lot of the ugly stuff was going on his head. He had a lot of snide and bitter thoughts that weren't spoken. There are a few scenes where he is overtly nasty, and I think his wedding performance is going to be in there. He also doesn't come off very well when he first heads off to the Cullens, but we'll have to see if they include that. A lot of his bitterness was channeled through his verbal exchanges with Rosalie.

As Bella and Edward leave the wedding it shows a full moon and then Bella turning her head as if she heard something. I wonder if they'll do Jacob's howl?

Jacob's scenes are all showing an active protection, there is even a brief snippet where he appears to be administering CPR. Edward's scenes during the pregnancy show a lot of frustration. He even yells at Bella at one point. Did Edward ever yell at Bella? I can't recall that ever happening. I know Rob felt frustrated that Edward was so reserved and controlled so much of the time. This might be like that scene in the EC movie where he shows his anger after Jacob's forced kiss. But is it going to work here? Edward stresses repeatedly through the entire series that he is never angry with Bella.

I agree that that scene is highly uncharacteristic, it will be very tricky to pull off just right. It cannot end in anger. The only explanation is that Edward is manifesting his great fear through an angry outburst, so he would have to confess that fear to Bella before the scene ends. Is this kind of dynamic going to replace the "burning man"?

Jacob is standing at point in the forward position when Sam's pack attacks, and Edward is behind. That does look like a logical defensive position, though.

There is a very brief moment showing Bella surrounded by Edward, Jacob, and Rosalie. I hope this is the delivery room, it just wouldn't be the same without Rosalie there and getting her comeuppance.

I love that final shot of Edward with black eyes.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Emmettroselover » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:02 pm

I agree with Corona and the more I watch the trailer the more I do see some parts that irk me a bit, but mostly because yet again Summit is only showing the positive side of Jacob. I fear that they will not show why he was so annoying at times, like his bitterness, his hatred, his sly comments, and so forth. If they keep out his outburst at the reception, I am going to be so upset. I am fine with them keeping that out of the trailer, but also nervous because they do tend to tone down Jacob in favor of making him look like a hero at times, like in Eclipse.

I also do not want them to do the whole Angry Edward thing again when in the book it was not like that. Edward yelling at Bella? That is not very canon and Edward felt helpless about the situation and angry at himself, not Bella. I really hope they do not flip it to try to make Edward look like a bad guy and Jacob look like the hero. This is something that Summit and MR tend to do, so I am worried about that.

As for the trailer itself, I am happy with what I saw for the most part, but I am nervous about how they will portray certain scenes. This is more due to the fact that Summit and MR have a track record of really toning down Jacob Black's anger, bitterness, and volatile side in order to make him look like a better character. I hate that because that was a huge part of his character in the books, but you could barely tell that in the films. Jacob was angry and forceful and extremely bitter at times, so at the very least they should have the blow up at the reception, which I think they will. The question is, will it stay true to the book? Yet again, Summit has already added stuff or flipped it around. That rarely works in these films, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. BD is definitely the one that has me the most intrigued though because there are so many scenes that could either be amazing or a complete failure. With Summit, you never really know, even if I do like Condon.
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