Edward and Bella #1

Re: Edward and Bella

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat May 09, 2009 1:16 am

ringswraith wrote:HOFJ: Do you mind if I call you that, by the way? :oops:

Guess I'm nitpicking. At this point all I can remember is you saying that Bella never discussed Edward's self-loathing, when she did (and I brought up examples). I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to be more specific and less general in our conclusions. :)

At this point, I'm happy to agree to disagree. And yes, definitely ironic on the acrophobia comment. :lol:


Pshhhh no I don't mind! Actually, before the nasty hackers killed the old Lex, I was an assistant mod on the Jacob thread, and they used to call me "mommy" because I had to keep them on topic. And nice. It wasn't easy. So yeah, I've been HOFJ, hoffjuh, and mommy. It doesn't even phase me anymore!

Aha but you didn't read my post closely enough then because I said that she never dealt with them and she dismissed them, which she did. And yes, I think this is just a matter of how you read her character. It changes even with me from day to day depending on my mood.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Knives » Sat May 09, 2009 1:17 am

At no point are we given any indication that Bella expects (or remembers) that Edward is protecting her; she goes and does stupid things of her own accord, fully expecting to get hurt or to die. Edward becomes protective - and then ovebearing - in response to this remarkable lack of either intelligence or self-preservation (take your pick).
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Jazz Girl » Sat May 09, 2009 1:19 am

Knives wrote:I believe the Edward sees Bella as incapable of caring for her own safety. Frankly, so do I - in my opinion, Bella's an idiot, lacking even the common sense to not walk down a dark alley in a strange city at night (I defy you - defy you - to find a SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH over the age of four who doesn't know not to do that). So Edward, wanting to watch out for her safety, tries making decisions for her to safeguard it.


Knives~ that pretty much goes beyond belief, though, and into the solid realm of fact. It is stated multiple times and in multiple places. Edward (and the rest of the Cullens for that matter) believes that Bella's sense of self-preservation was pretty much reversed, making her seek out rather than run from all those things that fate was trying to use to kill her. And, he counts himself very solidly in the category of "things fate was trying to use to kill her". So, of course he's going to do his damndest to protect her. Her life, her existence, is the thing he values most in the world. Whether or not this reversal is actually fact, I think is a different story. I wouldn't call Bella an idiot. Lacking a bit of common sense, sure. But, an idiot, I don't think so. Bella was drawn to others who were also on the outside looking in. The danger inherant in reaching out to those folks was lost on her, or more to the point, didn't matter to her. She wanted to give comfort and love to those who thought themselves unloveable. I think, in the end, that's what drew her to both Edward and Jacob, both of whom saw themselves (granted Edward much more so than Jacob) as monsters. Seriously impaired common sense, but not idiotic in the least, at least in my opinion.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Knives » Sat May 09, 2009 1:21 am

The "Bella is an idiot" argument is based on...

Actually, I'll take this to Bella's thread, where it belongs. See you there!
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat May 09, 2009 1:22 am

Alright, Knives. I understand. But now I have another question for you. Do you think this means that Edward's actions are excusable and okay when he does cross the line??

Jazz Girl - I think that you're both right. I think that you are absolutely correct in the context of the story, but it doesn't change what Knives is saying which is completely outside the story.

Where I will respectfully disagree with you is what drew her to them. I think fate and Edward's beauty drew her to Edward, and she was just naturally drawn to Jacob remember?
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Knives » Sat May 09, 2009 1:26 am

Oh, at no point do I hold Edward's behavior as excusable. In many instances, Edward's behavior is emotionally damaging and harmful to their relationship. However, what I am saying is that I know where he's coming from. Thrust into this situation, Edward is faced with the (percieved) choice of acting - and potentially hurting Bella emotionally - or reacting and potentially seeing Bella die. Whether or not this perception is accurate doesn't excuse his actions - Bella is, after all, her own person and free to make stupid choices if she wishes - but it does explain them.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat May 09, 2009 1:40 am

I agree. That's what I thought you were saying.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon May 11, 2009 2:54 am

Knives wrote:Oh, at no point do I hold Edward's behavior as excusable. In many instances, Edward's behavior is emotionally damaging and harmful to their relationship. However, what I am saying is that I know where he's coming from. Thrust into this situation, Edward is faced with the (percieved) choice of acting - and potentially hurting Bella emotionally - or reacting and potentially seeing Bella die. Whether or not this perception is accurate doesn't excuse his actions - Bella is, after all, her own person and free to make stupid choices if she wishes - but it does explain them.


Edward is Edward, he is going to do what he think is right regardless. It is his nature. So holding his behavior or not as excusable is a moot point. Is he over bearing, sometimes, is he a protective, yes, does this have a truely harmful affect on Bella? Now that is the question. Any takers?
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon May 11, 2009 9:37 am

The Dark Knight wrote:
Knives wrote:Oh, at no point do I hold Edward's behavior as excusable. In many instances, Edward's behavior is emotionally damaging and harmful to their relationship. However, what I am saying is that I know where he's coming from. Thrust into this situation, Edward is faced with the (percieved) choice of acting - and potentially hurting Bella emotionally - or reacting and potentially seeing Bella die. Whether or not this perception is accurate doesn't excuse his actions - Bella is, after all, her own person and free to make stupid choices if she wishes - but it does explain them.


Edward is Edward, he is going to do what he think is right regardless. It is his nature. So holding his behavior or not as excusable is a moot point. Is he over bearing, sometimes, is he a protective, yes, does this have a truely harmful affect on Bella? Now that is the question. Any takers?


As with everything in this saga, the answer is again, yes and no. There is one moment, and we all know which one, that harms Bella irreversibly. When Edward leaves in New Moon, even though his intent and motivation was purely to protect Bella, the damage that is done is almost incomprehensible. Every thought, feeling and behavior we see from Edward towards Bella is loving and caring. Now, does that mean that some of those behaviors don't aggravate her, irritate her, piss her off. No. As in all relationships, there are moments of irritation and snark. But, other than the leaving, there is nothing that I see Edward do that harms Bella.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby diane771 » Mon May 11, 2009 5:18 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Knives wrote:Oh, at no point do I hold Edward's behavior as excusable. In many instances, Edward's behavior is emotionally damaging and harmful to their relationship. However, what I am saying is that I know where he's coming from. Thrust into this situation, Edward is faced with the (percieved) choice of acting - and potentially hurting Bella emotionally - or reacting and potentially seeing Bella die. Whether or not this perception is accurate doesn't excuse his actions - Bella is, after all, her own person and free to make stupid choices if she wishes - but it does explain them.


Edward is Edward, he is going to do what he think is right regardless. It is his nature. So holding his behavior or not as excusable is a moot point. Is he over bearing, sometimes, is he a protective, yes, does this have a truely harmful affect on Bella? Now that is the question. Any takers?


As with everything in this saga, the answer is again, yes and no. There is one moment, and we all know which one, that harms Bella irreversibly. When Edward leaves in New Moon, even though his intent and motivation was purely to protect Bella, the damage that is done is almost incomprehensible. Every thought, feeling and behavior we see from Edward towards Bella is loving and caring. Now, does that mean that some of those behaviors don't aggravate her, irritate her, piss her off. No. As in all relationships, there are moments of irritation and snark. But, other than the leaving, there is nothing that I see Edward do that harms Bella.


I agree, and to add something. Edward's family also loved Bella and wanted the best, even if it broke both Edwards and Bellas heart.
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