The Gutter Gals & Co. --Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby LadyDi » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:16 pm

I feel a little like Bella after the change ...
no longer am I "Di" (the new system doesn't allow for names with less than 3 letters), but now I am "LadyDi";
the PSOD (Purple Screen of Death, which is what the Lex was known as in some circles) is now this glamorous lavender-hued creation. Like looking at Edward with human and then vampire eyes, I thought the Lex was pretty then, but it is gorgeous now.
Thanks to Alphie, Pel, and the entire Lex crew for the transformation. Like Bella's own change, the circumstances were not exactly pleasant, but there are many rewards.

Welcome to the new folks, and welcome back to the Gutter Gals and Guys (yes, men do visit this thread).
If any of the newbies (or anyone for that matter) want a bit of history, want to understand what we mean by polishing and grooming (though it's easy to guess those two sayings), you may want to check out the Gutter History Project. It is a private wiki (done on PBWiki) run by cullengirl (if that is still her Lex moniker) and by me. I will post the URL here shortly.

I agree with Ouisa's original statement about getting advice being necessary because hearing it / reading about it does not compare to actually doing it. As for the bruises, I bet if Edward didn't react so negatively and if it wasn't a physical reminder of how vulnerable Bella was, I bet Bella would have worn them as a badge of honour.
I'd elaborate, but that could be TMI (too much information).

I just finished reading Breaking Dawn for the second time, and I was fascinated to see that I didn't cry when I read it the first time, but I did when I read it the second time. It could be because I raced through it when I got it after the midnight release (I finished it that day), but this time was my "write my favourite quotes down" time and so I lingered, pondered, savoured. Do you think that the book has more impact if you have married, if you have baked, or if you yourself have children? I know my coven members that I've talked with so far have just loved the book, but I'm curious if those without those experiences grasp it in the same way. Thoughts?
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby jenni_elyse » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:54 pm

LadyDi wrote:Do you think that the book has more impact if you have married, if you have baked, or if you yourself have children? I know my coven members that I've talked with so far have just loved the book, but I'm curious if those without those experiences grasp it in the same way. Thoughts?


After reading some of the reviews, I think that a lot of the younger fans are able to love the book much more easily than some of the older fans. However, as far as how much the grasp the reality of what happened in the book as compared to the adult fans who loved the book, I'm not sure. I'm sure the children things must mean more to the adults than the teens. Since I don't have children, I can't sympathize with Bella completely. However, I almost think of my nieces and nephews as my own children and I know I would do ANYTHING for them, including die, so I can sympathize somewhat. But, just as you said, I wonder if a younger mind can grasp the reality of that. Hmmm.... Very interesting thought, indeed.
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:34 pm

The thing about Breaking Dawn is that you can relate to it more or less in different instances based on your life experiences. No two people will have the same experiences or probably relate the same way to a specific event. The birth may have been too tramatic for some, while other readers may say that birth can be messy and painful but absolutely worth it in the end. In reading the books, I've just tried to put myself in situations and asked what I would've done. I think it just comes down to how well the reader is willing to accept new ways of thinking.
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby bac » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:38 pm

I believe that your experiences affect the perspective of books. In my opinion, BD is a much more mature book. Therefore, if you have had more of the experiences yourself that Bella experiences then you may "understand" a bit more, or have more of an emotional connection, or whatever. I don't think you may enjoy the book more or less, you will just experience reading it differently. I hope that made some sense.

For me BD was an emotional roller coaster. I am married, do have children, and do occasionally bake. There were parts of the book where the characters were experiencing things that brought out my own feelings about issues that I may be dealing with. So, I am not turning into a vampire like Bella, but I did feel such empathy for her as she tried to hide her pain from Edward as she turned. When Bella was so happy the morning after their first baking session and Edward was so distraught over what he had done to her it reminded me that 2 people see the same experience in different ways. One of the great things I loved about how Stephenie wrote that part of the book is that she showed some "reality" in their first baking encounter. It is a very emotional thing, sometimes positive, sometimes negative. I think that for someone who has never baked before it may be a little more difficult to understand that there may be "negative" (or just not positive) feelings about baking. Again, that is not to say they didn't enjoy the book and understand the highs and lows and pains and joys of the characters. I just think that personal experience affects how we "read" the book.

I like what Elizabeth said "it comes down to how well the reader is willing to accept new ways of thinking". We can always learn something new and see new ways of looking at things. I know my eyes have been opened here in the gutter :shock: .
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby Variety » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:42 pm

What great thoughts and topics you ladies are coming up with. I love the comparison of the Lex to BD. It definitely has been a difficult and painful transformation, but hopefully, our pretty new lex is as indestructable as a vampire. About baking and preheating - reading, seeing, and doing are all 3 completely different.
Random, side chaste note: I absolutely loved how awkward the walk-into-the-cabin-on-Isle-Esme scene was. It was so awkward, neither one knowing what to say as they stared at the bed, the air being warm, and Edward all nervous and awkward "I thought it' be easier..." and Bella all awkward and like "...er... yeah..." and then *awkward stares* I was giggling the while time. Fabulous, and it seemed very true to character.

I giggled, too. Actually, I laughed pretty hard. I remember the awkwardness of the first time.

I know my experiences in life have affected everything I read. I could never have appreciated Breaking Dawn as completely as I did if I were not married with children of my own.

Oh, I had one other thought when someone mentioned Bella's bruising. While reading about said bruising, I was reminded once again of Edward's overreactions. When it comes to Bella's safety, he is always overreacting. Bruising during baking is nothing new. It happens to humans often enough to be considered normal. Sometimes, baking gets a little rough.
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby Feathers » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:48 pm

Hmmm. You might be on to something. I mean, I don't have kids, so I can't completely relate, but at the same time, my beef with the book was just that it was too happy an ending. Too perfect. My love for Twilight - the whole series - was that Stephenie was able to make this fantastic, surreal, mythical story seem real. Ironically, the realistic quality of it disappeared with the perfect, happy ending. Not the vampire wars, or the halfbreeds, but the too-perfect ending.

I love Jacob, I really do, and I'm happy he's happy. But I think I would've been happier if he'd just developed a non-imprinting relationship with Leah, and still angsted for Bella, 'His Never'. It would've hurt, but it would've seemed more real. But maybe that's just me.

Oh dear. As quickly as I plunged us into the gutter, I've yanked us out.

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ETA: Variety's kitchen really IS spicey! I need to get baking tips from her! (*Splash* Back in the gutter.)
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby gimpat01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:36 am

As for the temp of the situation when they first Baked in BD, I seemed to have convinced myself that they were in the warm ocean so it made them closer to each others temps. And not only that but remember in Twilight when he holds his cheek to her chest to hear her heart for the first time and when he pulls his head up his cheek is warmer than normal? Well there is alot of ingredient on ingredient mixing when you bake so maybe some of her heat transferred.

I do think if you've had more life experiences the book speaks different volumes to you. I watched my first true love walk out of my life 4 yrs ago and I let him go. It was painful and reading the leaving scene New Moon almost broke me. But needless to say, the guy was no Edward and he was not leaving over concern for me. But some things that happened in our relationship are very similar to things that happened throughout this saga so I'm more apt to believe that they speak to each person however they need to be spoken to. (Does that sentence even make sense?)

But back to the baking part. Being in love and baking w/that person can be absolutely amazing! Especially if they tell you the love you right as before the timer dings. That was my version of heaven for a long time. So I can def relate to Bella in BD.
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby jenni_elyse » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:41 am

I can totally see what you mean by having the too-perfect ending making it seem less real. That makes sense. However, I'm just the opposite. Well, not in the fact that it makes it seem less real, but that I liked the fantastical nature of it! I was so excited for the too-perfect ending! It needed to happen in my opinion. Bella and Edward's life was such a wild roller coaster of emotion that they deserved to have that happy ending.

I guess I see it this way because life is just to cynical for me. It's too full of hate and anguish. I love books that move me, but I love books that can help me escape the hate and anguish of life. And, Breaking Dawn did exactly that.

Also, I guess I kind of see Edward and Bella living in their "afterlife," so to speak. And, for me, that's how I imagine the afterlife. Well, not necessarily full of baking all of the time, but just experiencing every happiness one can ever imagine (with the one I love) and also still learning new things and finding ways to grow. I hope that makes sense.
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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby Feathers » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:47 am

Jenni- that makes perfect sense, and I agree with you 100%. As much as it made it seem less real to me, I cannot invision Stephenie doing it any other way. I mean, that was just how the story needed to end. I write fluffiction. I cry through angst, I tremble through fear - I love the fluff. I really, really do. So I love that it has such a fluffy ending. It's perfect for the story, it wraps everything up. It just sacrifices that realistic quality, in my opinion. But that doesn't make it any less of a story, nor any less true to the characters. It's how it has to be. And I loved it.

And that paragraph only half-makes sense to me. I think it made sense in my head. I think this is the part where I pry myself away from the Lexicon and go to sleep. Finally. :roll:

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Re: The Gutter Gals Thread--Innuendo thread for the "older" fan

Postby brunetterebel010 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:50 am

Feathers wrote:Hmmm. You might be on to something. I mean, I don't have kids, so I can't completely relate, but at the same time, my beef with the book was just that it was too happy an ending. Too perfect. My love for Twilight - the whole series - was that Stephenie was able to make this fantastic, surreal, mythical story seem real. Ironically, the realistic quality of it disappeared with the perfect, happy ending. Not the vampire wars, or the halfbreeds, but the too-perfect ending.

I love Jacob, I really do, and I'm happy he's happy. But I think I would've been happier if he'd just developed a non-imprinting relationship with Leah, and still angsted for Bella, 'His Never'. It would've hurt, but it would've seemed more real. But maybe that's just me.




Exactly! Only you've said it much better than I could have I think. That's what was bugging me. Does it make one a horrible person to believe that its possible to have too much happy in a story?
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