The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 2

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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Amanda Beth » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:25 pm

corona wrote:Don't tell me for one second that that just happened and Stephenie wasn't sending a message. She had her fingers in everything going on in that battle, and I love her for it.

This is the great thing about that last battle. In the book, SM finally elevated her characters above the story itself. She loved her characters more than the story and couldn't let any of them die. Now, in the movie, she can continue to tell the story and reveal even more about her characters while still keeping them ultimately safe.

Marcus finally gets his wish. Bella and Edward team up beautifully on Aro. I couldn't have asked for more. I think that was a Kasumi-style Dead or Alive tap dance on Aro's head. Cool, very cool, I was ready to get my Xbox controller out and have Bella do a back-kick.

Marcus and his "Finally" (I think that's the word he used, it all went so fast) was when I knew how much Stephenie was involved in planning the battle. Only big fans of the book would know why he wanted to die.

I always say that book imagery is always better than what a movie could make, but I don't think I could have ever pictured such an amazing battle if it was written on paper.
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby corona » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:08 pm

Amanda Beth wrote:Marcus and his "Finally" (I think that's the word he used, it all went so fast) was when I knew how much Stephenie was involved in planning the battle. Only big fans of the book would know why he wanted to die.


Bingo, and this is one of the great twists and ironies to this final battle. Completely non-canon and impossible from what we know about Alice's visions, and yet filled with amazing details purely for the book fans. This is an ending that was feared to be tortured to fit itself to Hollywood convention, and yet is full of hidden nods to the fans.

I'm thinking also about Alice and her tossing Jane to Sam. Why would she do that and not finish Jane off herself when she had good reason to? And yet Jane had helped kill Seth, and Leah who Sam had loved was dead. Was this also vengeance for Sam and for Jacob who couldn't avenge his own pack mates? Sounds right to me.

That great scene of Alice's final vision, showing us all Jake and Nessie and B&E years from now. Alice was Edward's biggest supporter. Is this an oblique reference to her Bella vision? I'd like to think so. This is like Alice telling Edward "I told you so".

And everything that flows from the battle onwards is one big butterfly kiss to the book fans. The meadow scene, the final paragraph, the names of Jacob and Edward and Bella being lifted off the pages in the final credits.

A tribute to the stars, to the characters, to the author, and ultimately to us, the reader.

This is just freaking brilliant. This is genius.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: The New Ending

Postby openfire » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:07 pm

Hello folks,

Just a couple things I wanted to say...

Brienna wrote:Later on; Alice sees a vision of Nessie, Jacob, Bella and Edward in the future, save and sound. She should not be able to see that. Even if she could see Nessie; the fact that Nessie's future is intertwined with Jake's, should make that Alice can't see Nessie future anymore.

You know, I never thought about that part!! I had the same thoughts about the batte & the fact that Alice wouldn't see the wolves or Renesmee, but I kind of let it go (it gets better with more viewings LOL). But you are so right! She shouldn't see their future & so neither should Edward & that means he won't do his wee smile at the end... nooo!

Brienna wrote:
Suzan wrote:And then Carlisle charged at the Volturi and I briefly thought: "Peace-Love-and-Understanding Carlisle is charging first?!"

I think I agree with your entire post. But this little quote... I too, was to caught up, to process it. But thinking about it, I think I would've been happier with it if they would've let someone else charge first. It did seem out of character to me.
But, I think that's a result of knowing the books so well. If you'd just seen the movies, it won't seem that much out of character that Carlisle is the first to charge (?).

I think that as the took Alice - his family - he would certainly charge first. Just remember in Twilight when Rosalie asks why she should care that Bella is being hunted by James. Carlisle says "Bella is our family now, and we protect our family". I think he definitely would charge at them if they had someone he loved.

Violet Sunlight wrote:I have a question about BD the book, if Alice can’t see Renesmee and Jacob how could she had known that 1. they needed passports and 2. because they were going to be the only ones who would have survived?

When I read BD I didn't think this at all...I don't think Alice saw their future & knew they would be ok. I think she just hoped that if they got away, Renesmee would be safe with Jacob, and no one should really know who they are (including the Volturi as they have never seen Jacob in human form have they? And Renesmee would change so fast too..). I think that Alice knew that Aro wouldn't see this idea in Bella's thoughts & that it was the best plan to ensure at least someones survival.

marielle wrote:On the Wolves in the vision... one of my friends who doesn't read the books told me she assumed that Alice's visions were tied to Bella and her future. Not to the wolves or Renesmee. So the fact that Alice couldn't see the wolves in NM was because Bella's future was so uncertain, that she couldn't see Renesmee because it was bound to Bella's life and with the battle the outcome was that Bella would survive so her future was set and so she could see everything else involved as well...

You know, that is a really good way to look at it. I don't think I would ever have come up with that LOL especially if I hadn't read the book!
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Tornado » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:30 pm

VS - I think it was more of a case that Alice knew Bella would do whatever she could to save her daughter, so gave her instructions on the best way to do it. That didn't mean she was privy to any information on whether Jacob and Nessie would survive the fight or not, especially in the book, where Bella is the one who decides who gets the passports. Alice just knew that saving Nessie would be Bella's primary concern, so made that possible.
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Brienna » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:46 am

Already posted this somewhere else, but I think I'll get more responses here....
So, just copy-pasted it :)


What do you think non-readers will think of Renesmee and Jacob's ending?

My sister didn't get it. She was happy that Renesmee had Jake. But, she didn't realize that Jake would live forever as well. She asked me about it... Because after thinking about it for a few days, she realized that Jake would one day die. Renesmee is a half-vampire. We know from Nahuel that she will live forever, it's clear. But for my sister, it wasn't clear that Jake could/would also live forever. While I didn't give it a second thought...

Any thoughts on that?
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Amanda Beth » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:45 am

I don't know anyone who has seen the movie and not read the books so it's interesting to hear your sister's perspective. I think it's just part of the book to movie process. If you didn't read Harry Potter, you would miss a ton of details that they show in the movies but don't explain.

The people who turn these series into blockbusters are the fans of the books. We're the ones they keep in mind, as they've said in countless interviews. If they needed to explain everything in the book, it would be boring as much as people would like to deny that. So, no hate to the non-readers, but you need to be prepared to not understand everything going on.
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Brienna » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:05 am

Amanda Beth wrote:I don't know anyone who has seen the movie and not read the books so it's interesting to hear your sister's perspective. I think it's just part of the book to movie process. If you didn't read Harry Potter, you would miss a ton of details that they show in the movies but don't explain.

The people who turn these series into blockbusters are the fans of the books. We're the ones they keep in mind, as they've said in countless interviews. If they needed to explain everything in the book, it would be boring as much as people would like to deny that. So, no hate to the non-readers, but you need to be prepared to not understand everything going on.


Agreed :)
I do think though, that this is a big thing. You're gonna miss details, but it's not like this is a small detail. My sister was really concerned about it; great, Nessie had Jake, but hey, Jake doesn't have immortality, that's sad!
They could've just sqeeuzed one or two sentences in the movie where Jake, or another wolve, explains that they don't age. My sister's idea was to have it in NM, where Bella goes to Emily's. And the boys give her a few details, they could've just thrown it in there.

Btw, I'm Dutch, my sentences might not always be coherent ;)
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Whatnow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:56 pm

I think they showed us that vision of Renesmee and Jacob in the future to try to answer our biggest question about Alice seeing/not seeing the wolves. I think we were supposed to come away simply accepting "Well, I guess all of their gifts have evolved. Alice can see the wolves now.....just like Bella can let Edward read her mind." (Except, the part about dropping her shield was actually in the book!)

I am willing to not analyze the ending too terribly much because I really think the movie would have been boring without the battle. The book was fairly anticlimactic at the end (which I am thankful for.....I wouldn't have wanted anyone to die!) but that kind of ending wouldn't translate well to the big screen. That's just my opinion. We kind of got the best of both worlds, and I am so happy the ending wasn't somehow leaked by any of the characters since it was filmed so long ago! There were LOTS of new actors involved in that scene, and it's amazing that one of them didn't accidentally say the word "vision."

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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby Tornado » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:41 pm

I think it's more likely they just said, 'We've thrown canon out the window already, so let's tie this up, too!'
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Re: The New Ending **SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS**

Postby pennybug84 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:19 am

Brienna wrote:Already posted this somewhere else, but I think I'll get more responses here....
So, just copy-pasted it :)


What do you think non-readers will think of Renesmee and Jacob's ending?

My sister didn't get it. She was happy that Renesmee had Jake. But, she didn't realize that Jake would live forever as well. She asked me about it... Because after thinking about it for a few days, she realized that Jake would one day die. Renesmee is a half-vampire. We know from Nahuel that she will live forever, it's clear. But for my sister, it wasn't clear that Jake could/would also live forever. While I didn't give it a second thought...

Any thoughts on that?


My mom hasn't read the books either and she went to the movie with me (she loved it by the way) and asked me about that too. So I had to explain to her how he could live forever as long as he phased once in a while.

My mom also didn't understand about Bella lifting her shield and showing Edward her memories. So I had to explain to her what was going on there too.

I figured they would do the battle as Alice's vision, but it still shocked the crap out of me. They took it to a much more extreme then I expected, and since Carlisle lost his head so early I just started freaking out. It took me maybe half-way through to be like this has to be a vision, the witnesses Alice found haven't shown up yet. And after thinking about it for a couple of says I like the battle/vision. It would have been really boring for the vamps to just stand around talking like in the book.It just was so shocking at first. I want to see it again so that I can enjoy that part better w/out being blindsided.
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