openfire wrote: Violet Sunlight wrote:I have a question about BD the book, if Alice can’t see Renesmee and Jacob how could she had known that 1. they needed passports and 2. because they were going to be the only ones who would have survived?
When I read BD I didn't think this at all...I don't think Alice saw their future & knew they would be ok. I think she just hoped that if they got away, Renesmee would be safe with Jacob, and no one should really know who they are (including the Volturi as they have never seen Jacob in human form have they? And Renesmee would change so fast too..). I think that Alice knew that Aro wouldn't see this idea in Bella's thoughts & that it was the best plan to ensure at least
someones survival.
Tornado wrote:VS - I think it was more of a case that Alice knew Bella would do whatever she could to save her daughter, so gave her instructions on the best way to do it. That didn't mean she was privy to any information on whether Jacob and Nessie would survive the fight or not, especially in the book, where Bella is the one who decides who gets the passports. Alice just knew that saving Nessie would be Bella's primary concern, so made that possible.
Thank you both for your inputs, you both gave me much to think about. I'm still undecided about what to accept, you both bring up VERY good points. But, it just seems unlike Alice to give non-vision advice, especially something as important as survival advice. But, at the same time what you both say makes sense. So again, I am undecided.
These are some of the lines in the book that have part of me thinking the way I do:
Ch 33 – Bella says,
“Alice had given it to me just a few days before . . . Oh. Maybe there wasn't that much luck involved after all. Alice knew I had this picture. Maybe she'd even had some dim flash that I would need it before she give it to me.” Ch 39 – Alice says,
“It might have gone that way,” she said calmly. “In which case you needed to be prepared to save Nessie.”Ch 39 – Alice says,
“Before any of that, I had to try to see every trick the Volturi might come in with and give you what few clues I could so you would be ready for their strategy, and I only had just a few hours to trace out all the possibilities.” Errant thought: Maybe Alice had a vision of J. Jenks handing Bella the documents. Alice definitely can't see the half-breeds but I think she could see pictures of them.
corona wrote:Did anyone pick up on the nuance of Leah saving Esme?
The first time I saw it I thought, Oh wow Leah is sacrificing herself for a Cullen, she's really changed. The second time, I saw the movie with my 17yr old niece (who hasn't read the books, only seen all the movies) and she says, wow remember how she wouldn't take her food in the last movie, then I thought oh yeah that's right, Leah's sacrifice was even more significant than I thought. But, I really couldn't appreciate the moment like I wanted to because, to my horror, the next thing I see is Edward falling down the chasm and coherency once again became “mental goo” as you say.
corona wrote: I'm thinking also about Alice and her tossing Jane to Sam. Why would she do that and not finish Jane off herself when she had good reason to? And yet Jane had helped kill Seth, and Leah who Sam had loved was dead. Was this also vengeance for Sam and for Jacob who couldn't avenge his own pack mates? Sounds right to me.
Oh I was so happy Alice did that. I knew there was something important in that but I was too happy to figure it out and my brain was trying to recover from having parts of it be mush. Thanks for clairifying it. Alice was magnificent in this scene.
Brienna wrote:What do you think non-readers will think of Renesmee and Jacob's ending?
My aunt asked me the same thing at our Thanksgiving dinner. She said she loved the movie, and for her it was the best of all of the Twilight movies, but what will happen to their daughter (it's funny she couldn't say Renesmee's name) and Jacob, won't Jacob eventually die? I of course, had to explain how that's not going to happen if he continues to phase into a wolf. I think this info should have been included in the NM or EC movie. Preferably in the NM movie, since that's when Bella has a problem with her aging.
