The Science of Twilight

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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ourlastmemory » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:51 pm

in answer to the idea of the venomous sperm, i don't think the venom would have necessarily had to mix with the sperm - edward's sperm would merely have been...stored since his transformation, presumably at just about the right temperature so it couldn't die. however this does beg the question of how on earth the sperm's chromosonal count/genetic make up was also altered, since presumably edward was unable to make any after his transformation. and it would have to have been altered to that of a vampire, or renesmee would have turned out as a normal human.

as for renesmee/jacob i assume that since renesmee would, like nahuel, stop developing after a while, she'd have only a limited time to be able to reproduce before everything stopped ticking, but she would still be fertile. i imagine they'd be able to produce children as i seem to remember that carlisle said they both had 24 chromosomes. what the child would turn out like is harder to imagine, but yeah, i think that's what made jacob's imprinting possible.

so yeah, apart from the fact that these creatures are mythical (i think..), it mostly seems to work out scientifically, in a kinda warped way :D
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby debussygirl » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:53 pm

In response to venom/kissing:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1099212/faq
Go down to "Does Bella Ingest Venom When She Kisses Edward?" and there's the answer.
Also, MOST bodily fluids are absent. Meaning not all. Also meaning that the venom isn't necessarily there. When we actually know so little about the vampire body though, we can only assume such things.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Sarah-Lynn » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:57 pm

ourlastmemory wrote:in answer to the idea of the venomous sperm, i don't think the venom would have necessarily had to mix with the sperm - edward's sperm would merely have been...stored since his transformation, presumably at just about the right temperature so it couldn't die. however this does beg the question of how on earth the sperm's chromosonal count/genetic make up was also altered, since presumably edward was unable to make any after his transformation. and it would have to have been altered to that of a vampire, or renesmee would have turned out as a normal human.


It seems so silly to be talking about this as if it were scientifically possible... geez, so here go my thoughts on that theory...(I blush as I write this)... maybe she didn't get pregnant on the first try, that his "human stuff" just didn't take because it had been frozen for like 90 years?? Then, it's "expelled" from his body, and he's able to make his super-potent vampire venom-sperm... geez... blush again. Who really knows? lol... we all know the end, so do the means really matter?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Forbidden_Freedom » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:10 am

We're really going in circles here. Firstly, Stephenie isn't a scientist. So it really may not be totally plausible enough for a doctor to sign off on it. BUt, she does try to make everything RIGHT. So I agree with whoever it was that said the Quileutes all have 24 chromosonal pair. That was great thinking on their part (I'm REALLY sorry, I don't remember your screenname). As Sam's theory goes: You imprint on whoever is equipped to carry on the line (of shape shifters). it's just an added kick that that person happens to anchor you to the universe.

And, Ms. Meyer did more research than we know. Remember Leah's ramblings? About how she's a genetic dead end? eg. Billy Black (carried the shapeshifter gene ready to act whenever vampires were around) and his wife (who must have been Quileute, with a 24 chromosonal pair) produced Jacob. He had the heritage on both sides, which meant that he was Alpha. The largest and strongest wolf. Meaning that. . . If his sisters had been around at that time . . . they would have phased too!!!!!!!! And been like LEAH!!!!

OH!!!!!!!! I UNDERSTAND about Leah now!!! Okay. Quil imprinted on Clair, who is 3, right? Well, Quil reached full physical maturity, and STOPPED GROWING. And he will continue to not change until he stops phasing. Until Clair is older, and he chooses to stop phasing.

Leah is also at full maturity. She isn't going to get her period, and her body isn't going to change until she stops phasing. She isn't a genetic dead end at all. Her body has stopped where it is for now. But when she stops phasing . . . her body will continue to change. Meaning, as a woman, she'll get her period, and be able to have children. Which means she most likely will imprint.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Sarah-Lynn » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:32 am

Forbidden_Freedom wrote:Leah is also at full maturity. She isn't going to get her period, and her body isn't going to change until she stops phasing. She isn't a genetic dead end at all. Her body has stopped where it is for now. But when she stops phasing . . . her body will continue to change. Meaning, as a woman, she'll get her period, and be able to have children. Which means she most likely will imprint.


WOW! OK, now I see why people are dying to know more about the future of these characters!!! The Cullens would eventually have to leave Forks; they've only been there for 4 years at the end of BD. Nessie will be fully matured in 6 1/2 years... could they stick around that much longer, and no one really notice that they haven't aged? Bella and Edward will not move and take Nessie away because that's where Jacob is, so they would 'have' to stay in that area until she matures. It's more than likely they wouldn't leave until after Nessie is old enough to be with Jacob. So, if the Cullens are there, then there's always the concern that someone from Volturi-and-company will be after them, and the need for the wolves to phase.

I seriously hope that Steph comes back to the Cullen Universe, because there are so many possibilities here! :D
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby twilighter4eva » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:41 am

AliceLauren wrote:yeah. I guess that makes sense. Since she is obviously growing...

B.t.w. Vampires have 25 chromosomes, werewolves 24, and humans 23. But does Nessie have 24? Maybe she has 24 and a half *gasp*! No JK. I honestly don't know. Anybody have any guesses?

She has 24. Carlisle did a test on her or something
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby debussygirl » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:15 pm

Literary Crusader wrote:
Secondly, it's implied that Nessie and her 24-chromosomed ilk are fertile (because Jake imprints on her, and imprinting is an evolutionary mechanism to pass genes on even though it's impossible and inefficient and if evolutionary certianly not concerned with fated true love at all). Hybrids like her, though, cannot reproduce - with her mismatched chromosome count, she should be totally infertile.

Lastly - why can vampires have children with humans? They already have a great reproduction method - bite a guy. For reasons unknown to science (but perhaps due to Ms. Meyer liking to imply sex in all of her perfect, hem, relationships) vampires can have sex with one another; sex which serves no reproductive purpose. And they can reproduce with their intended prey and form magically fertile offspring?

If you go back to the first page, I link an article on mules and ligers-both hybrids like Nessie. And right there in the articles it says SOME FEMALES CAN REPRODUCE. Don't ask me how, all I know is that in nature it has happened and so it may-I won't go questioning it.
To answer the last one this will all depend on your perspective on life. If you believe in evolution and all that stuff, then it wouldn't make sense for there to be hybrids like Renesmee-why would predator and prey reproduce together? However, if you believe like I do, in God, then this is a bit easier to understand (or at least to me, I'll try to explain best I can). The vampires have a choice to be like the Cullens or the others and in my belief, I think God would want them to rise above their nature and find that humanity they had before. And when they did do this, become like the Cullens, with that restraint, why shouldn't they have children? In a way, it seems like they recieve something greater than what they are giving up. There is a reason to do the right thing. And when at first it does not seem apparant, sometime down the road it will. This love that Edward has for Renesmee I think would be well worth not endulging in that lust. Of course for every vampire it's not the case, but it's the same way with humans as well. Hope that made sense...it did in my head.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Isobelle » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:23 pm

[/quote]

(Actually, heck, how did they even french kiss before this? Doesn't Edward have venomous saliva in his mouth? I'm assuming venom can't be destroyed so...ugh. Bella should've swallowed quite a lot of it. This makes my head hurt.)

[/quote]

I believe if you re-read the kissing scene's carefully, they never actually DO french kiss because of the above reason. Their kisses were just lip to lip contact, no tongues involved.

(Apparently I messed something up on the quoting aspect. Forgive me!)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Forbidden_Freedom » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:56 pm

Sarah-Lynn. I'm glad you're seeing even more possibilities. BUt, Think about it. Vampire family. Nessie is Bella's daughter. And Edward's, of course. They're all immortal. Nessie will reach full maturity, then stop forever. Her daughter or son, if she has one, will be a wolf, because he'll be around his grandparents. And, he or she will be able to live forever until he or she stops phasing, before or after imprinting. Sure, they'll be immortal . . . but I doubt they'll leave each other for long. It's likely that Nessie and Jake will get a cottage near to Bella and Edward's.

So, this universe can go on forever. Not only because of the vampires, but because of the shapeshifters too. Anything is possible here.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby leahlovetwilight » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:30 pm

huh
theoretically, they would be able to have children, because she's only half a vamp. she changes and grows.
she's also half human. any baby she would have would also be some part human. how much though?
jacob is still considered human, right? wow. if they had a kid, it would be
25% vampire
50% werewolf?
and
25% human
kind of screwed up, dont you think?
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