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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby dazzlingdynamite » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:18 am

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:
Mara Jade Cullen wrote:Bella is designed to be a character that can be sympathized with so that the reader could easily step into her shoes.
I don't get why people think that she is weak and boring. She goes against the grain of what is the usual while still being "approachable" by the reader. She is takes care of her family. She doesn't just go along with the crowd. She thinks differently than her friends and classmates. She stands up to her father. And she has a strong enough personality to hold her own against Edward--who can be a little stubborn and opinionated if you haven't noticed.
So she's weak physically. *shrugs* She's human{/i] in a supernatural setting. Of course she has to be protected. People complain because they think that she is the perpetual damsel in distress. But in Twilight she doesn't wait for Edward to come and rescue her. She goes out to protect her mom and the Cullens from James even though she knows that it means her own death and sacrifice of everything that she had with Edward. I don't see that as weak. She may have been rather gullible, but I think that she shows strength of character throughout the series.
Despite her physical weakness she goes to Italy and saves Edward.
Breaking Dawn then turns the tables. She goes from being the "weak" link in the Cullen family to being the most powerful character that saves them all.

Everyone has their own opinion, of course. But I think that those who see the story as being sexist in reference to Bella's role choose to only see what they want and aren't considering her storyline as a whole.


I very much agree with you. Bella was percepted by some people as the weak, human girl in a world of a vampires. I think you're mostly right. She may be physically weak in the beginning but she's emotionally stronger than most people. And when she ends up stronger than everyone else she [i]does come in and save them all. Heck, she saved some people in her human life. She's not a damsel in distress. She's our heroine.


The point is that she isn't that emotionally strong if she can't function without a man in her life . . . she falls apart whenever she's left without Edward or Jake. I wouldn't call her a heroine, I'd certify her as a damsel in distress because that is what she does. She sits and waits for someone to save her.

I don't know anyone who can identify with her, all of my friends and I agree, she's unrelatable because none of us think of ourselves as that boring, that weak, we all like to think that we're a lot stronger . . .

I'm with LeahRose I would have been wanting to learn how to kick those vampire butts, yet she's just content to forever be this damsel who can never save herself . . . rather pathetic if you ask me.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby leahroselover » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:34 pm

The same didn't apply to Bella. If you think about it, Bella riscked her life every minute she spent with Edward because she loves him. I think this makes her strong. But, as everyone, she has flaws. She's eighteen. So, she's maturing, especially emotionally.And she had a lot to deal with.


She has flaws, its just no one in the books every tells her. Except Leah *hugs Leah*

Risking your life every minute for a guy sounds good on paper, it does, it makes you sound brave and in love when in reality your being selfish and stupid. I understand she wanting to be with Edward, but she puts her safety second and doesn't think about her father and mother who might be very upset to learn their daughter was killed by "some kind of animal."

SMeyer's vamps are ridiculously hard to kill...REALLY RIDICULOUSLY hard to kill. Yet, I feel Bella should learn to do something other than to smell good and <3 Edward. Her becoming a vamp in BD it was like, she was finally good enough, she just had to change species. :roll:

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby Lioness Rampant » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:52 pm

I'm not sure I would say Bella is a heroine, although she may be Edward's brand of heroine… (bad joke... sorry :roll: :roll:)
Anyway… (I won’t make anymore bad jokes! I promise!)
A heroine can refer to several different things. An extremely courageous woman with great strength of character. -Bella does not fit into this category-. Heroine can also describe a woman who is admired, or idolized for her qualities or achievements. -I know that I don’t idolize Bella…- And then there is the heroine that simply occupies the role of the main lead female character. -Bella is the principal female, and she does play a vital role in the plot development. But in a rather negative way- she is either prey, bait or simply the cause of a battle. Is that admirable?

That being said, I did enjoy her narration throughout the story. Even if it can get a bit monotonous, Bella’s voicing the story is not all entirely bothersome and sometimes even pleasant. Though the goal is for me, the reader, to associate with Bella- I view her as an entirely separate character and simply the means to the story in which we indulge! :D

I know that Stephenie formed Bella’s character in an effort to structure a mold in which we all can fit. An “ordinary” girl. I don’t think that I fit that mold. I don’t think anyone I know fits that mold that Stephenie Meyer created. I see Bella as unique- and not as the status quo- or the standard for ordinary. But there are many girls, (internationally) that can fit into a piece of that. That can identify with our narrator. Kudos to Stephenie for creating that!
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby Amethyst1 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:10 pm

I definitely agree with you - lioness rampant -

I can not relate or identify with Bella at all. She's an entirely different persona than myself. The way she deals and thinks about things is not how i would be - if i were in her shoes to begin with.
Sometimes i find her a little unrealistic but ordinary at the same time. I've never met a girl in my life, that never had any dreams or aspirations or goals or never had any thought about what they would want to do with their life. How is that possible? Maybe it's the difference in personality, Bella seems to be this little wanderer, just going wherever...

I think Bella is emotionally weak - that's not to say that she isn't a brave person, she is. But i am not sure risking your life to with who you love puts you on the top of the list of the bravest people - it's not outstanding or extraordinary. Alot of people, when they enter a relationship - they face risks, even your life sometimes. I think the term "extraordinarily brave" should go to people that for instance visited the moon (it's extremely dangerous, or was 30 years ago anyways, someone like Neil Armstrong) Or the young people that go to war.

But she is emotionally weak - she has this obsessive side of her, when Edward left - she didn't want to leave forks, she wanted to remember him, she thought that if she left forks - it will be like he never existed. She was obsessive, even then. What puzzles me most is, before Edward she was this normally strong person, but then she falls inlove and it's like "there's no point to life with him" - i know it's true love - but still, Bella's love towards Edward wasn't anything extraordinary, just human...so that means, that she won't be the first or last person that fell inlove and at point in their life, they lose their "true love"....
But i just found it a little ludicrous, the height of dependency she has.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby navarre » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:26 pm

Lioness Rampant wrote:I'm not sure I would say Bella is a heroine, although she may be Edward's brand of heroine… (bad joke... sorry :roll: :roll:)
Anyway… (I won’t make anymore bad jokes! I promise!)
A heroine can refer to several different things. An extremely courageous woman with great strength of character. -Bella does not fit into this category-. Heroine can also describe a woman who is admired, or idolized for her qualities or achievements. -I know that I don’t idolize Bella…- And then there is the heroine that simply occupies the role of the main lead female character. -Bella is the principal female, and she does play a vital role in the plot development. But in a rather negative way- she is either prey, bait or simply the cause of a battle. Is that admirable?

That being said, I did enjoy her narration throughout the story. Even if it can get a bit monotonous, Bella’s voicing the story is not all entirely bothersome and sometimes even pleasant. Though the goal is for me, the reader, to associate with Bella- I view her as an entirely separate character and simply the means to the story in which we indulge! :D

I know that Stephenie formed Bella’s character in an effort to structure a mold in which we all can fit. An “ordinary” girl. I don’t think that I fit that mold. I don’t think anyone I know fits that mold that Stephenie Meyer created. I see Bella as unique- and not as the status quo- or the standard for ordinary. But there are many girls, (internationally) that can fit into a piece of that. That can identify with our narrator. Kudos to Stephenie for creating that!


Dont't worry Lioness Rampant, your jokes aren't bad - pretty good tongue-in-cheek, I think. :)
I really like your post and the examples used for 'heroine'. I only found her annoying in Eclipse because she could not/would not make up her freakin' mind about how to handle the situation with Jacob. Finally after ripping out his and Edward's heart along with hers, she did the right thing by letting him go (sort of). BD took care of the final cutting of the string if you will.

But at the end of the day, flaws and all, Bella was a character I actually like. I certainly liked her better as a vampire - she fits better in that world than as a human. My perspective.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby Mara Jade Cullen » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:33 pm

dazzlingdynamite wrote:The point is that she isn't that emotionally strong if she can't function without a man in her life . . . she falls apart whenever she's left without Edward or Jake. I wouldn't call her a heroine, I'd certify her as a damsel in distress because that is what she does. She sits and waits for someone to save her.

Not true. She got along fine in Pheonix without a boyfriend.
And I don't think it was just the losing her boyfriend thing. She's young and naive. She did what a lot of people in their first relationship do. She threw all her eggs in one basket. But there's this theme through the books of this being a larger-than-ordinary love for them. They were destined for each other. She built all her dreams and plans around being a part of him and his family. She was happy and secure in that (apart from the James thing). Then he's gone almost without warning. Its like she was hit by Tyler's van. It came out of nowhere and destroyed everything that she had built her life (current and future) upon. She lost Edward, Alice and the whole Cullen clan. She lost eternity being adored by the man that she loved.
True. Many people would get over it. They might be severly depressed for a time but then move on with their lives. But not all. I've worked with divorce recovery programs. Some people can't get out of that depression and move on for years or even decades when they've experienced loss like that.
Again, this isn't meant to be some silly high school romance that is here today and gone by next week. Part of the point of the separation is to prove that point. When I first read Twilight I was against Bella becoming a vampire just for this love that she felt for this boy. How would she know what in a human life she would be missing out on? But by her very inability (and Edward's as well) to heal her heart in that painful separation, it proves to have been more than mere puppy love.

As for needing a man--any man...well, she wasn't really looking for a romantic relationship. Told Jacob that she wasn't looking for that with him. Why not one of her girlfriends? Because Edward and Alice had become part of that circle of friends at school. Being with them just reminded her of who was missing. Going to LaPush was theraputic in itself for her because he had never been there. Being with Jacob was an escape. A friendship built upon that. It just happened that the friend there was male. It seems to me that Bella is the type that would have more guy friends than female friends. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that there's something inherently weak in her character because her best friend was a guy.

I'm with LeahRose I would have been wanting to learn how to kick those vampire butts, yet she's just content to forever be this damsel who can never save herself . . . rather pathetic if you ask me.

What exactly do you expect her to do? Learn Karate?
Yes. In the Buffy universe, you could build up some strength, get yourself an ax with a wooden stake in the handle and take care of yourself.
But these aren't the Buffy vampires. She can't outrun them (even in her truck). She can't use wooden stakes. She can't use holy water. She can't use sunlight. No garlic either. Do you think she could actually rip one apart limb from limp? That's really the only way and she's not physically capable of it--even if she took anabolic steroids and trained for the Olympics she would still be as breakable as "silk over glass" in comparison to them.

Now, have you actually read the fourth book? When she has that potential for physical stregth to defend herself and then there is the threat impending, what does she do? She doesn't sit around willing to be the damsel any longer. She learns to fight (over Edward's protest). She learns to use her ability. And she uses that ability to defend her vulnerable husband and family.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby twilight1909 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:59 pm

She's most annoying in Eclipse. I still can't believe she cheated on Edward! JUST after their engagement.

>:(

I may hate her for it, but I agree with everything Mara Jade Cullen said.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby dazzlingdynamite » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:15 pm

Double post.
Last edited by dazzlingdynamite on Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby dazzlingdynamite » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:16 pm

malaz wrote:I definitely agree with you - lioness rampant -

I can not relate or identify with Bella at all. She's an entirely different persona than myself. The way she deals and thinks about things is not how i would be - if i were in her shoes to begin with.
Sometimes i find her a little unrealistic but ordinary at the same time. I've never met a girl in my life, that never had any dreams or aspirations or goals or never had any thought about what they would want to do with their life. How is that possible? Maybe it's the difference in personality, Bella seems to be this little wanderer, just going wherever...

I think Bella is emotionally weak - that's not to say that she isn't a brave person, she is. But i am not sure risking your life to with who you love puts you on the top of the list of the bravest people - it's not outstanding or extraordinary. Alot of people, when they enter a relationship - they face risks, even your life sometimes. I think the term "extraordinarily brave" should go to people that for instance visited the moon (it's extremely dangerous, or was 30 years ago anyways, someone like Neil Armstrong) Or the young people that go to war.

But she is emotionally weak - she has this obsessive side of her, when Edward left - she didn't want to leave forks, she wanted to remember him, she thought that if she left forks - it will be like he never existed. She was obsessive, even then. What puzzles me most is, before Edward she was this normally strong person, but then she falls inlove and it's like "there's no point to life with him" - i know it's true love - but still, Bella's love towards Edward wasn't anything extraordinary, just human...so that means, that she won't be the first or last person that fell inlove and at point in their life, they lose their "true love"....
But i just found it a little ludicrous, the height of dependency she has.


Pretty much agree with everything you and Lionessrampant just said . . . give or take a few, course :)

Mara Jade Cullen wrote:Now, have you actually read the fourth book? When she has that potential for physical stregth to defend herself and then there is the threat impending, what does she do? She doesn't sit around willing to be the damsel any longer. She learns to fight (over Edward's protest). She learns to use her ability. And she uses that ability to defend her vulnerable husband and family.


I have, of course. That doesn't change my opinion, it just proves my feelings. She has to change her species to stop being so weak . . . she can't do it as a human.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen

Postby Lioness Rampant » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:19 pm

navarre wrote:Dont't worry Lioness Rampant, your jokes aren't bad - pretty good tongue-in-cheek, I think. :)
I really like your post and the examples used for 'heroine'. I only found her annoying in Eclipse because she could not/would not make up her freakin' mind about how to handle the situation with Jacob. Finally after ripping out his and Edward's heart along with hers, she did the right thing by letting him go (sort of). BD took care of the final cutting of the string if you will.

But at the end of the day, flaws and all, Bella was a character I actually like. I certainly liked her better as a vampire - she fits better in that world than as a human. My perspective.


thank you, navarre, I apprecaite your reassurance about my pun... :D
sometimes I just have no self restraint I I just can't help it! :twisted:

she was a huge source of frustration in Eclipse. Just skipping over the fact that she magically forgave Edward for dumping her in New Moon, she is begging him to... you know...forget abstinence- and then she tangles herself up with Jake and takes as many people as possible down with her. She causes battles, unsettles werewolves, attracts the volturi, etc...

I like how you said "BD took care of the final cutting of the string if you will." perfect analogy, since Eclipse is about how there are still threads, and its not a clean cut (hence the cover of Eclipse) and its just a mess- refering to her relationships and the major cause for bloodshed, if you will... Breaking Dawn is a breath of fresh air (on the former aspect, and just weird on the latter), and I agree, she is a better character as a vampire. Now, the plot in Breaking Dawn shifts from her to her child. Now, she can turn into a REAL heroine and actually protect her child with her super skills. Gotta love the undead...
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