Bella Swan Cullen #2

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby SenorGimp » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:22 am

That's true...
Most people either get to live out their lives with the one they love, or else get their heart broken, and try to find some way to keep on living. Bella's decision is WAY more intense than that...
But at the same time, when I went through it, I didn't search out someone else to love... I DID drown myself in booze for an incredibly irrational period of time, so I guess that's not any better?
Anyway, I do think Bella sticks to her guns, she just has all of the normal reactions and emotions of any other teenager in love, only for her it's perhaps a bit magnified, considering the (approaching)-perfection of the object of her affection...
And I don't see how her sacrificing herself to the Newborns would have helped anything...
As you said, she DID try to sacrifice herself to save her mother in Twilight, and we all know how that turned out, so maybe she actually DOES learn from her mistakes..
Sorry, HOFJ, but, although I agree with you on the majority of your Bella-oriented statements (referring to posts on other threads), in this case, I think she behaved properly and actually did improve the way she acted...
but that's just me...
= )
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:13 pm

how can you possibly say bella sticks to her guns? the girl can't stand up to anyone, except charlie, but she really has no respect for charlie.

show me one place, one time, AFTER edward leaves, where she stands her ground on something OTHER than her right to see edward.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby DesiringJB » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:58 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:how can you possibly say bella sticks to her guns? the girl can't stand up to anyone, except charlie, but she really has no respect for charlie.

show me one place, one time, AFTER edward leaves, where she stands her ground on something OTHER than her right to see edward.


Although I don't really like Bella, and I generally find her annoying and weak. I think in Eclipse she began stand her ground on the issue of having to see Jacob. Edward kept saying no, but Bella continued to get more vocal on the subject. Thats an example, isn't it?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby dazzlingdynamite » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:13 pm

DesiringJB wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:how can you possibly say bella sticks to her guns? the girl can't stand up to anyone, except charlie, but she really has no respect for charlie.

show me one place, one time, AFTER edward leaves, where she stands her ground on something OTHER than her right to see edward.


Although I don't really like Bella, and I generally find her annoying and weak. I think in Eclipse she began stand her ground on the issue of having to see Jacob. Edward kept saying no, but Bella continued to get more vocal on the subject. Thats an example, isn't it?


That is an example but it's one of the parts in the series I really can't relate to. She kept seeing Jacob although she knew it was hurting him each time she went back to Edward, choosing him instead of Jacob. I didn't get why she was being so selfish. She was hurting both of the people she 'loved' the most in the world :S
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:40 pm

mm no. she wasn't able to have an argument with edward. she wasn't able to really stand up to him. she had to sneak off remember?? i suppose it's an example of not being weak, but it's not an example of standing up to someone.

i understand her need to see both. i have some empathy for that. she has a right to her best friend, and she has a right to edward. it was just a really crappy situation.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby DesiringJB » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm

dazzlingdynamite wrote:That is an example but it's one of the parts in the series I really can't relate to. She kept seeing Jacob although she knew it was hurting him each time she went back to Edward, choosing him instead of Jacob. I didn't get why she was being so selfish. She was hurting both of the people she 'loved' the most in the world :S


Oh I know! Bella bounced between the two for so long and caused a lot of heartache ..Thats why so many people dislike her haha
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby SenorGimp » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:54 pm

have you ever been in love? Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses, you build up a whole suit of armor, so that nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life...You give them a piece of you. They didn't ask for it. They did something dumb one day, like kiss you or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so simple a phrase like 'maybe we should be just friends' turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. I hate love. -Neil Gaiman-


Excellent quote malaz..
I love neil gaiman, have you ever read the Sandman comic books?
I'm reading the graveyard book right now, ya know, the tales of Nobody Owens?
Sorry off topic..
Um, HOFJ, you asked me to name an instance after Edward leaves in New Moon, when Bella sticks to her guns in even one thing?
Well here's a teensy little one...
She insists on having Renesmee, although it may kill her.
I know you will just say that that is her being extremely selfish, which I disagree with, but either way you look at it, even when the little nudger started breaking her bones, she still wouldn't let anyone "take care" of it.
So yeah, there's an example, but maybe you were looking for one that is still Bella as entirely human (not with a half-vamp baby in her belly)?
She sticks by her decision to stay in Forks, but that may still not be what you're looking for...
Let me do some 'research' and I'll get back to you guys (gals, whatever).
= )...
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:01 pm

well, you can look at it like her being selfish, and sometimes i feel that way, but i don't know. i wouldn't say it's incredibly selfish. but remember, she did that because it was EDWARD'S baby. when has she ever stuck to her guns for a decision that didn't bring her closer, in some way, to edward? when has she ever thought, wow, i'm really being terrible, i need to stop, and actually stopped what she was doing? never. when has she actually LISTENED to criticism without crying her way out of any responsibility?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby SenorGimp » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:26 pm

nice riposte
touche
I can't really counter that, because I believe you're right, she mainly did just cry her way out of everything.
I still feel for her, but I can't argue with what you said, at least not effectively, since I don't really disagree with it.
Well Put.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #2

Postby DesiringJB » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:07 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:well, you can look at it like her being selfish, and sometimes i feel that way, but i don't know. i wouldn't say it's incredibly selfish. but remember, she did that because it was EDWARD'S baby. when has she ever stuck to her guns for a decision that didn't bring her closer, in some way, to edward? when has she ever thought, wow, i'm really being terrible, i need to stop, and actually stopped what she was doing? never. when has she actually LISTENED to criticism without crying her way out of any responsibility?


Bella sticking up to Edward about having the baby didn't bring them closer, at least not at first. Bella was insistent about having the child, even when initially it was driving a wedge between her and Edward. Plus, i don't think it was JUST because it was Edward's baby. Had it been Jacob's child, I think she would have been just as persistent about keeping it.

AND Bella has thought about how terrible she is and how much she's hurting everyone. She beats herself up a lot in Eclipse, and at the very end she finally chooses Edward. Yes, she still wanted Jacob in her life, and yes thats being a bit selfish.. But you can barely blame her for wishing that. If Jacob had said "I'm leaving and never coming back because you hurt me to much Bella." I'm sure Bella would have understood him leaving. But Jacob couldn't bring himself to leave her alone..

Also, I don't think Bella always cries to get out responsibility.. Could you name examples HOFJ?
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