Edward Cullen #3

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby roseaurora » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:44 pm

I am inclined to agree about his "more traditional" beliefs helping his restraint, but I have always found it an interesting contradiction that he would sneak into her window and spend night after night with her (without her even knowing at first!). That's not very traditional, haha.

But, when he knows it isn't going to lead to anything its probably easier for him to not have issue with that.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby eclipserox » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:54 pm

Esme echo wrote:
Esme echo wrote:eclipserox, if you review the end of New Moon, pp. 531-532, Edward describes how Demetri's gift works and his conviction that it will not work on Bella. Also, somewhere in the third book of Breaking Dawn Bella muses about her determination to stay with Edward, whether or not it means they both will die. Sorry, I don't have time to look for the reference now.

Here it is, from Breaking Dawn, p. 652: "It was not going to be the end of the world. Just the end of the Cullens. The end of Edward, the end of me.

"I preferred it that way--the last part anyway. I would not live without Edward again; if he was leaving this world, then I would be right behind him."
---------------------
That attitude seems kind of irresponsible to me . . . I don't think it was right for Bella to plan to give up her life so she wouldn't have to live without Edward. Bella had a child now; she needed to endure whatever she had to, both to protect the baby and to be there for her until Renesmee was self-supporting. Renesmee's well-being should have been more important to Bella than her emotional agony over losing Edward.


Thanks. I had forgotten that Demetri tracked differently than James and I definitely didn't remember that quote from BD. I knew she felt that way in NM, but I thought having a child would change everything. I have to agree with you-it is incredibly selfish and irresponsible for Bella to be willing to die so she wouldn't have to live without Edward even though it would leave her child orphaned. I think when you have a child, taking care of it should be your 1st priority no matter what. I always tend to think choosing to die when there are other options is selfish. Even without Renesmee, it would have devastated Charlie and Renee. With Renesmee, it is unforgivable. I don't care how much pain it would cause Bella to live without Edward, their child deserved to have at least one parent. Knowing Jacob would take care of Renesmee does not give Bella the right to leave her. I don't care how strong Bella's vampire love for Edward is, her love for her child should be the most important thing.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby roseaurora » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:07 am

I don't think she had another option... especially at that point. If she left it would leave everyone else unprotected... which is more selfish, leaving your child with someone you know can keep her safe or leaving all your friends (who are only there because of you) and your family to fend for themselves when you could be protecting them?

Her shield was the best chance their side had, and to keep Alice, Renesmee, Jacob, etc safe, they needed the best shot to kill Demetris (can't remember his proper name, lol, hope that's close enough).


Even though she had no idea how powerful her shield would be when she was plotting Renesmee escape, she had to be ready for any possibility, that was incredibly responsible.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:09 am

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Do you think Edward had a hard time restraining physical affection/lust for Bella?

I think it is pretty clear, Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 that he did. Self control was something Edward prided himself on. It was among the very many things he originally cursed Bella for testing. We see time and time and time again throughout the series that, while he has to play the bad guy by staying in control, he also takes that role gladly, as she is in so much greater danger from him than he is from her. We see it in Twilight, perhaps best just before the baseball game next to the jeep, "Damn it, Bella!!...You'll be the death of me, I swear you will." (p 363). And, it keeps going all the way through BD, after what he considers to be a disastrous first night together, "I know. And you're right...I will not make love with you until you've been changed. I will never hurt you again." He wants her desperately. But he can't risk it. As he says in Eclipse, "Do you think I would ever take that kind of risk with you?" (p 448)

ariadnee wrote: Of course, the above is true if his only concern was hurting Bella. The only thing I don't know is how much of it is his natural prudishness regarding physical contact before marriage. He may think that doing much beyond kissing is inappropriate for unmarried couples, and is just using the "I'd hurt you" line as an excuse to avoid going any farther. We know from Eclipse that he's a bit embarrassed when he tells Bella about his more traditional beliefs. It'd be nice to get some Edward POV from Eclipse to answer that question.

Anyone have an opinion on that? I love to hear more. -Ariadnee


An interesting thought, Ariadnee. But I really don't think it was about prudishness so much as a bit of a related issue. While the overwhelming reason for his restraint was protecting Bella, we also know there was another issue. Edward witnessed lots of incredible changes in his 107 years while still managing to hold on to a good portion of his old-world ideals. I think his argument about protecting Bella's virtue was a valid one. He wasn't so much being prudish, which I see as more a conventional societal concern, as he was truly concerned about her virtue in the long run. I don't know that I am explaining it right, but I think there is a very clear difference.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby eclipserox » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:19 am

roseaurora wrote:I don't think she had another option... especially at that point. If she left it would leave everyone else unprotected... which is more selfish, leaving your child with someone you know can keep her safe or leaving all your friends (who are only there because of you) and your family to fend for themselves when you could be protecting them?

Her shield was the best chance their side had, and to keep Alice, Renesmee, Jacob, etc safe, they needed the best shot to kill Demetris (can't remember his proper name, lol, hope that's close enough).


Even though she had no idea how powerful her shield would be when she was plotting Renesmee escape, she had to be ready for any possibility, that was incredibly responsible.


I would agree with you if she realized the potential of her shielding power prior to the fight with the Volturi. Then, she would know she should stay to protect the Cullens. However, she did not realize it-she was struggling to use it to protect just her and one other person and couldn't maintain it for a long period. And she did not think she would be a very good fighter. If she thought she wouldn't be that helpful in the fight, taking care of her child would have been the best choice, not staying to die so she wouldn't have to live without Edward.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby edward4ever » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:55 am

roseaurora wrote:I don't think she had another option... especially at that point. If she left it would leave everyone else unprotected... which is more selfish, leaving your child with someone you know can keep her safe or leaving all your friends (who are only there because of you) and your family to fend for themselves when you could be protecting them?

Her shield was the best chance their side had, and to keep Alice, Renesmee, Jacob, etc safe, they needed the best shot to kill Demetris (can't remember his proper name, lol, hope that's close enough).


Even though she had no idea how powerful her shield would be when she was plotting Renesmee escape, she had to be ready for any possibility, that was incredibly responsible.

I think they are referring to pg 652 where she implies that if Edward died in the fight, she would make sure that she did too. But, she was comforted by the fact that she knew Jacob would be with Nessie forever.

Of course she had to stay and fight, that's not the argument. Leaving her child parentless...by choice...that's irresponsible.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby edward4ever » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:04 am

ariadnee wrote:The only thing I don't know is how much of it is his natural prudishness regarding physical contact before marriage. He may think that doing much beyond kissing is inappropriate for unmarried couples, and is just using the "I'd hurt you" line as an excuse to avoid going any farther. We know from Eclipse that he's a bit embarrassed when he tells Bella about his more traditional beliefs. It'd be nice to get some Edward POV from Eclipse to answer that question.

Anyone have an opinion on that? I love to hear more. -Ariadnee

I believe it's a mixture of both, his prudishness (protecting his virtue-- since it's the only "law" he hasn't broken) and fearing he would hurt Bella.

But, since he ends up making love to her hours after he weds her, I think it is mainly about his beliefs about sex and marriage. :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby mikkib » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:09 am

Of course she had to stay and fight, that's not the argument. Leaving her child parentless...by choice...that's irresponsible.[/color]



I thought she felt she had to fight and Jake would take care of Nessie forever, she would have what Edward and Bella had. Plus, Jake would always be what Nessie needed so she would have everything. Without Jake, I think the choice would be selfish but she had a parent/significant other all wrapped in one person for her daughter and she needed to be there to get rid of Demetri so they would be safe. I thought Demetri would be able to track both of them because of he was there in the field with them at the negotiation part of it all. Edward could hear voices within a couple miles, maybe Demetri was close enough to get the "voice" of everyone there. And, they wanted to do that for Alice too. I don't think she thought she could protect them all like she did but she knew she could protect some like they had planned and was hoping they could do away with some major players, enough time to maybe give Jake a fighting chance to leave and to take out Demetri.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby roseaurora » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:10 am

I guess I just saw it as her doing what she could to protect her daughter... even if it meant her death in the end. I didn't see as her allowing herself to be killed if Edward dies, I think it was more realizing that if it reached a point where he was going to die she would end up dead as well. And she was admitting that she would prefer it that way.

It also goes back to what I posted earlier about her bond with Edward. Vamps have a stronger bond than humans do and if she was unable to function when he was gone when she was only human than I can't imagine what it would be like when she is a vampire. And her inevitable quest for revenge would put Renesmee in danger anyway.

I guess I just see the situation differently.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:18 am

eclipserox wrote:I would agree with you if she realized the potential of her shielding power prior to the fight with the Volturi. Then, she would know she should stay to protect the Cullens. However, she did not realize it-she was struggling to use it to protect just her and one other person and couldn't maintain it for a long period. And she did not think she would be a very good fighter. If she thought she wouldn't be that helpful in the fight, taking care of her child would have been the best choice, not staying to die so she wouldn't have to live without Edward.


[

I am torn here, folks. I have lived through a time without the other piece of my soul. When he was gone, I can honestly say that it was my kids, having to get up every day and take care of them, keep life some semblance of normal for them, that kept me a form functional. But, I knew (for the most part) that he was coming back. I (thankfully) can only imagine that, if that weren't true, it would be similar. I would endure because my kids needed me. How could Bella not do the same for the daughter, Edward's daughter, that she faught so hard for in the first place?
At the same time, this is where we have to seperate real life from the mystical in the story. Bella, at the time, was not only resolving herself to most assuredly loosing (most likely) her soul mate as well as her entire family, but also the idea that she had a very slim hope of giving her daughter a chance to live. Bella was a key to the battle, even if she didn't realize that she was the key. By staying and fighting and therefore dying, she would give Renesmee and Jacob a chance to live. It was choice, yes. But, it was the choice between running carelessly to die and dying so that someone else can live.
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