Edward Cullen #3

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby mikkib » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:29 am

I am torn here, folks. I have lived through a time without the other piece of my soul. When he was gone, I can honestly say that it was my kids, having to get up every day and take care of them, keep life some semblance of normal for them, that kept me a form functional. But, I knew (for the most part) that he was coming back. I (thankfully) can only imagine that, if that weren't true, it would be similar. I would endure because my kids needed me. How could Bella not do the same for the daughter, Edward's daughter, that she faught so hard for in the first place?
At the same time, this is where we have to seperate real life from the mystical in the story. Bella, at the time, was not only resolving herself to most assuredly loosing (most likely) her soul mate as well as her entire family, but also the idea that she had a very slim hope of giving her daughter a chance to live. Bella was a key to the battle, even if she didn't realize that she was the key. By staying and fighting and therefore dying, she would give Renesmee and Jacob a chance to live. It was choice, yes. But, it was the choice between running carelessly to die and dying so that someone else can live.


But in real life you wouldn't have someone to take care of your kids forever. I think if she were to leave Nessie with Rose or Alice or something like that, it would be bad. But Nessie had Jake forever and he was everything she needed forever. I think she felt that was better. Plus, she, unlike Edward never really was suicidal. She didn't think she would want to go on without Edward and had said so in the past, but never acted on it. I think if the battle had been bad and she lost Edward, she would have went to find Jake and Nessie.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby mikkib » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:31 am

edward4ever wrote:
ariadnee wrote:The only thing I don't know is how much of it is his natural prudishness regarding physical contact before marriage. He may think that doing much beyond kissing is inappropriate for unmarried couples, and is just using the "I'd hurt you" line as an excuse to avoid going any farther. We know from Eclipse that he's a bit embarrassed when he tells Bella about his more traditional beliefs. It'd be nice to get some Edward POV from Eclipse to answer that question.

Anyone have an opinion on that? I love to hear more. -Ariadnee

I believe it's a mixture of both, his prudishness (protecting his virtue-- since it's the only "law" he hasn't broken) and fearing he would hurt Bella.

But, since he ends up making love to her hours after he weds her, I think it is mainly about his beliefs about sex and marriage. :D



I agree. He wouldn't yield on one but did the other. I don't think it was prudishness in the sense that he felt he was still just trying to do his best to save her immortal soul.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby eclipserox » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:48 am

In response to what some people have said regarding Jacob being enough for Nessie, being everything for her, I just don't think that's right. Renesmee was a little girl. No matter how much she loved Jacob, at this point as a big brother/friend, she needed her parents as well. I don't know many parents who would choose to leave their child with a sibling or good friend regardless of how much they knew this person loved their child and would take care of it. Bella was so important to Renesmee. When Bella and Edward were at their house and Renesmee woke up, she wanted Bella. It didn't matter that everyone else was doting on her. She wanted her mother. And, when she got older, Jacob would of course be one of the most important people in her life, as her lover and husband, but that doesn't mean she didn't need her family, too. No one person should be everything.

Yes, Bella ended up being the key to the Cullens all surviving. Of course I'm glad that they did. But, since Bella did not know she would be a big help, I do think it would have been better for her to try to take Renesmee and protect her no matter what happened in the fight. For all she knew, the Volturi could massacre them, Demetri could live, and having seen Renesmee for a few short moments, could have tracked her. If Bella was un-trackable, she should have made the choice to protect her daughter.

As far as what some are saying about the Bella's love for Edward being greater than we can understand since they are vampires, this is true, but I still think caring for her child should come first. And, I would imagine that if the love between vampire mates is stronger than love between humans, Bella's love for Renesmee would also be stronger. Bella is a vampire and Renesmee is a half-vampire. Does this mean their love for each other is stronger than that of a human mother and child? Keep in mind Bella and Renesmee are the only real vampire mother and daughter. While Esme considers the Cullens her children and loves them, they are not hers biologically and it is not exactly the same. I would think Bella's love for Renesmee would be the strongest love in the books, although this does not seem to be true since she was willing to die with Edward and leave Renesmee orphaned.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby edward4ever » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:15 am

Okay, people! *laces fingers together, turns hands palms out, and cracks knuckles* :D

Something kept gnawing at the back of my mind when we were having the discussion about Bella choosing to die with Edward rather than run with Nessie.

It wasn't a choice she made. She was going by Alice's actions in leaving Bella the information about J. Jenks and getting new ID's. It's on pg 644. She's thinking to herself...

"If Edward and I were running with her, she wouldn't need these documents right away. I was sure IDs were something Edward knew how to get his hands on or make himself, and I was sure he knew ways to escape without them. We could run with her for thousands of miles. We could swim with her across an ocean.
If we were around to save her.
And all the secrecy to keep this out of Edward's head. Because there was a good chance that everything he knew, Aro would know. If we lost, Aro would certainly get the information he craved before he destroyed Edward.
It was as I suspected. We couldn't win. But we must have a good shot at killing Demetri before we lost, giving Renesmee the chance to run.


Bella never bet against Alice and her intuitions, so of course, she would see the only course of action for her to take was to make sure Nessie was safe with someone.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby roseaurora » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:22 am

She knew and loved Edward a lot longer than she knew and loved Renesmee... of course she would pick him over her!

:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:

That is totally just a joke... couldn't resist, hope it didn't offend. :oops:

In the end, Bella did what she did and some agree with it and others don't... might just be an impasse...

Edit: Good catch edward4ever!
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Lunna-san » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:01 am

I don't think this is Bella's reason, Roseaurora. She doesn't love Edward more than she loves Renesmee. It's a different kind of love. Edward is her husband, her partner for eternity. Renesmee is her child with Edward.

Her priority is to save Nessie. To give her a chance of survive and to have a life. Any parent would do that. Make sure your child is safe and protected. She couldn't even concentrate on a battle with Renesmee there, her life in risk. So, she has to take Nessie out of the way. She also wouldn't leave her family - the Cullens fighting, when they are fighting because of her daughter. And also, she wouldn't go anywhere without Edward. Living or dying, they'd stay together.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby eclipserox » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:56 am

roseaurora wrote:She knew and loved Edward a lot longer than she knew and loved Renesmee... of course she would pick him over her!

:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:

That is totally just a joke... couldn't resist, hope it didn't offend. :oops:

In the end, Bella did what she did and some agree with it and others don't... might just be an impasse...

Edit: Good catch edward4ever!


I'm not offended, but you obviously must not have any children. I think any mother would agree with what Lunna San said. Your love for your child is a different kind of love, but it is definitely not less than your love for your husband. Renesmee is her child with Edward. She sees Edward in Renesmee. She knows Edward loves Renesmee. All of these things contribute to how much she loves Renesmee. Of course she's known Edward for longer. He's her husband, and Renesmee is her child. What mother hasn't known her husband and parents and friends for longer than her child? That doesn't mean anything. A child is typically the most important thing in any mother's life. Remember when (I forget thevampire's name) a vampire was helping Bella practice extending her shield by shocking Edward. Bella didn't like that it was causing Edward pain, but she was OK with it. When that vampire wanted to use Renesmee because she knew protecting her child would give Bella more motivation, Bella was livid. I think that shows who Bella is more protective of at this point. If Bella ever had to choose between saving Renesmee and saving Edward, I think she would choose to save Renesmee, just as any parent would save their young child. If anyone was forced to choose in, say a car crash or a robbery, I'd have to say 99.9% of parents would save their child. I've known people who have lost their spouses and people who have lost a child. While both are devastating, losing a child is much more difficult.

edward4ever-

Good find. I think you must be right and Bella made her decisions based on Alice.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby roseaurora » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:44 am

That little sarcastic remark didn't go over as well as the RV thing, lol.

Sorry... just wanted to lighten the mood... I was not being serious...at all. I'm totally aware there is a difference between the love for a child and that for a spouse...
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Esme echo » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:48 am

Thank you all for a great discussion! You are the reason I love the Lexicon.

Here's a question Liz asked me in an e-mail; we're collecting opinions:

:?: In the Fire and Ice chapter of Eclipse, p. 495, Jacob and Edward are talking while Bella is half asleep. Edward tells Jacob, "Yes, I'm jealous of that, too." What do you think Jacob was thinking?
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:01 am

Esme echo wrote:Thank you all for a great discussion! You are the reason I love the Lexicon.

Here's a question Liz asked me in an e-mail; we're collecting opinions:

:?: In the Fire and Ice chapter of Eclipse, p. 495, Jacob and Edward are talking while Bella is half asleep. Edward tells Jacob, "Yes, I'm jealous of that, too." What do you think Jacob was thinking?


Forgive me, Esme Echo, I do not have my book here at work to consult. But, as Fire & Ice is one of my favorite chapters in the saga, I feel pretty secure in answering. I always assumed that Jacob was imagining being able to touch Bella without restraint. Being able to touch and be touched, love and be loved without having to keep some hold on control. Being able to give himself completely to her, which we know Edward couldn't do until she was changed. Regardless of his self control and recoginzing that that would pose such an ultimate danger to her, a part of him desperately wanted it. And, he is unashamed of that, at least at that moment.
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