Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:17 pm

New question:

Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby navarre » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:43 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:

Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)


No, No & NOOOOOOO!!!!

As I posted in the XX discussion thread of XY, Edward was over-protective, a little arrogant, but never abusive.
He truly feared losing Bella and therefore gave her a hard time over going to LaPush and to be honest he WAS a little jealous. Normal.

Abusive people CANNOT be reasoned with. Edward could be reasoned with as shown in Eclipse when he decided to trust Bella's judgment on Jacob and La Push. He loved Bella so much and would do anything including die for her. He never forced himself physically on her - always respecting her person and her virtue. Not too many men do that.

I saw him as a gentleman - with flaws that's a given, but a gentleman none the less. imo.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Amethyst1 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Do I think Edward is an abusive boyfriend? People can say whatever they want regarding his actions because it’s the way they perceive it. But one thing no one can doubt is his intentions and motivations. Whether his actions come off abusive or controlling to a person as they see it, what is in his heart is definite and conclusive as it is his basis to his conducts. Motivation and intention mean a whole lot to me in comparison to the action itself. I don’t necessarily have to like the way someone conducts their intentions. In Edward’s case, I really do though - not that I think they are appropriate in reality.

Critics and people alike that bestow such statements are extrospective when it comes to deciphering a character’s conductive assessments. . . Meaning, they don’t bother looking past the first layer ensuing a character’s (i.e Edward) motives and intentions. Too one-sided. They form an opinion to what is being done and said rather than forming an opinion to what substantiates what is being done and said. Looking at the whole picture rather than a part of it is not being done in most cases. Moreover, bestowing nefarious and unpleasant statements to a character’s conducts when the author insists otherwise is unfathomable, to me at least.

Furthermore, I think it’s perfectly understandable when people find Edward’s actions distressing. There is nothing wrong about seeing a character’s actions less appealing than other people or finding them vexatious or just down right irritable and whatnot, But implying as much (i.e abusive) when the contents of the books don’t match up to your opinions is not understandable to me. Interpreting something as such is okay. . . for them as they see it that way, but I am sorry to say to those people the same doesn’t hold true for me.

navarre - you beat me!!! i absolutely agree. REALLY AGREE!
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:22 pm

Hello novel posters :D I just wanted to say I made a little Jasper POV short story if you want a peek just PM me. :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:

Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)


Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3, as well as my fellow posters, forgive my semi-laziness. As many of you know, I have extremely strong views on this topic. So, I am going to copy what I posted on the Edward & Bella thread in response to an article post put there. I am sure it makes my thoughts quite clear.

Murnau, first, welcome to our little community. Thank you for your well-reasoned and thought provoking post. However, on the whole, I think you make the same mistakes that those who condemn the Harry Potter series for condoning witchcraft and black magic make. You look at the surface without taking the time to truly understand the message. Let me start by saying that this is a topic that has been covered in much discussion on the Lex. And I have posted on many of those discussions. As I read your post, I wear many hats; Twilighter, woman, social worker, advocate for abused women and children, and survivor of a violent adolescent relationship. I will preface these thoughts as I did the previous: I do not put myself out there as an expert on feminism or violent relationships. What I say is strictly from my point of view and is based solely on my experiences working with survivors, and being a survivor...

As strongly as I feel about that issue, it is your assertion, not only that the relationship between Edward and Bella is abusive, but that this is, in some way, glorifying or even normalizing, abusive relationships that really snaps my teeth together. I will take exception to your examples first, and then address your further assumptions about violent relationships in general,

As you have already put it out there as, "the most alarming moment", we can stick with the incident involving Bella's truck. Let me start by saying that, on the face of it, this incident, an incident where a boyfriend removes a piece of the engine to prevent his girlfriend from leaving her home to visit someone would qualify, both legally and socially, as domestic violence. However, there are two factors that you so completely overlook and write off that completely alter the situation.

First, the supernatural/magical elements to the story add a context to the event that cannot be overlooked. In this case, Edward removes a piece of the engine to prevent Bella from visiting her friend Jacob. But, let's throw in to the story that Jacob is a werewolf, and a young werewolf at that. Werewolves, particularly young ones, are notoriously unstable, unable to control their emotions. They are also highly dangerous when they are unstable. Also add in that Edward is a vampire and the werewolves are his sworn mortal enemies. And, finally, add in that, within the circle of friends is a woman who has been gravely injured by her werewolf fiance in a momentary loss of control, a freak accident by someone who is much older and in better control than the boy Bella is going to meet. Also a factor, Bella seems to be stalked by horrible accidents. Fate is really trying to kill her and Edward believes he is fighting fate at every turn trying to keep Bella alive. Finally, add it that Bella seems to do everything she can to give fate a free shot at her.

Second, a factor that you so freely and blithely write-off, are Edward's intentions. Individuals who abuse their partners have an incredibly self-centered view of the world. Everything is all about them; their feelings, thoughts, beliefs, wants and needs, and how other things that happen reflect on them. They refuse to recognize that they are responsible for anything or that their actions cause anyone pain or hurt. In this case, Edward's intentions are only to protect Bella, to keep her alive. Edward recognizes almost immediately that what he did hurt Bell, and he immediately changes his beliefs and his behavior. He encourages Bella to visit Jacob, even driving her to Jake's place. Relationship abuse is all about power and control. When I am teaching, I use the following definition:
"domestic violence is the use of power and control within an intimate relationship that threatens
another's well-being."
Every relationship has different power dynamics. In some cases, one partner might have more money or be physically stronger or more successful in the community. What matters is how that dynamic plays out in the relationship itself. Edward's actions, while tip toeing the line on one or two occassions, never are intended to hurt Bella, and in fact are intended to do the opposite. And, on those one or two occassions, Edward immediately recognizes his fault, admits it, and changes his behavior. Believe me when I say, if the relationship were in any way abusive, that wouldn't happen.

As for your assertion that Edward used emotional manipulation to coerce Bella into getting married, this will be the one time I openly tell you you are wrong. Again, it is the supernatural elements to the story that contradict you outright. It would be different if Bella wasn't committed to the relationship, was questioning it in some way. But, Bella has already decided that she wants to commit her life to Edward by having him change her into a vampire; in my opinion a little more committed than marriage. Bella doesn't see the need for a wedding when she is already giving him forever. Bella has been raised by a mother who married early and without much thought. She feels she made a huge mistake and has ingrained her daughter with her fears and prejudices. Bella, like many of us, was raised in a time and environment where marriage is a sort of formality that we go through; something that can be done and undone just as easily. To her, her true committment to Edward is in her transformation. But, Edward is a man born in 1901 and raised in a differnt time, when marriage was the only form of committment there was, and it truly meant something to everyone. Edward doesn't coerce her or blackmail her. He listens as Bella explains why she is afraid of marriage, and explains to her why he thinks it is so important. Then, he asks her to understand. It is no different than the compromises many of us reach about our weddings. Who amongst us can honestly say that there wasn't something they did in their wedding that they didn't agree with 100%, but they did it anyway to satisfy their partner or a family member or their community.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ariadnee » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:15 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)

It's hard to follow Jazz Girl, but someone has to be brave about it. Wow...what a post. Really. Okay, back to my own less impressive words....

I believe Edward's actions are sometimes a bit over the top, but abusive is not the right word. I agree that if Edward, and all of the characters in the story were regular teenagers, then some of his actions would definitely be considered abusive - physically restraining Bella, sabotaging her truck, kidnapping her, refusing to let her see her friends, etc. But I'm with Jazz Girl that Jake could have honestly been dangerous, and Edward couldn't be certain she would be safe. Jake never was dangerous - he was always able to control himself, but it was close a few times.

I always see Edward's POV so clearly. Jake is dangerous, therefore Bella shouldn't be around Jake. Edward came to the same conclusion about himself, and tried to take himself out of Bella's life (the ignoring Bella part of Twilight), and then later tried to take all supernatural elements out of Bella's life (the middle of New Moon.) So his intentions are consistent. But his follow through doesn't make it - in all three cases, he has to give in and let her be in danger anyways. Poor guy.

Thanks for listening. -Ariadnee
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby navarre » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:19 pm

Jazz Girl, that has to be the BEST post in response to a post that I haver EVER read.

I could never have articulated that as well as you did. I do know first hand the hopelessness and darkness that an abusive relationship can be. Luckily, I left it 12 years ago March 21, 1997 at 8:25 a.m. Gavel came down and I was 'parolled' from my hellish prison. But I digress.

You demonstrated the true character of not only Edward Cullen but of his 'creator' - Stephenie Meyer.
She created some of the best and well developed characters for a fictional series. Edward, as I stated earlier was and is a gentleman. His love for Bella knew NO limits. His were always best of intentions when it came to Bella.

SM showed us the complexity and the depth of the dynamics that involved human/vampire relationships and gave us truly redeemable characters and wonderful stories.

Thank you as always your wonderful posts and opinions. I always look forward to reading them.

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:06 pm

First let me say, I have never thought of Edward as abusive in any way, shape, or form. His main priority at all times is to keep Bella safe. He suffers when she is in pain, even when that pain is not his fault. How could it be possible for Edward to feel this way about Bella, to love her more than anything else in the universe, and abuse her? Those two things just don't mesh.

As for Edward not letting Bella go see Jake, I totally got Edward's POV on that. The kidnapping thing bothered me a bit, but he didn't actually hurt Bella. In both the case of the truck disabling and the "slumber party" he was just trying to keep Bella from doing something he saw as a hazard to her health, and perhaps her life. When I found out that my boyfriend had been smoking, I would have done anything in my power to get him to stop, except leave him (because to me that would be a stupid reason to break up with someone you love). I care about him and want him to be healthy and not die, so I made sure he could not smoke. I was a little overbearing, but he understood that it was just because I care for him so much and want to protect him that I did the things I did. Luckily for both of us he was not addicted and was able to stop immediately with no major issues, but I was not willing to negotiate with him about this issue. Much like Edward was not willing to negotiate with Bella at first about her visiting LaPush. He felt it was bad for her, so he made her stop. Edward just took his prevention to greater heights, because he could. That's how I see it anyway.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:35 pm

Ariadnee & Navarre, thanks for the kind words. I sometimes worry that my passion for certain issues gets the better of me. Thanks for backing me up. :)

Question Time:
What do you think life was like when it was just Carlisle and Edward?
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:56 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:Question Time:
What do you think life was like when it was just Carlisle and Edward?


Great question!

I think life must have been a little boring, and maybe a bit tense when it was just Carlisle and Edward.

While they had each other to keep company, Carlisle was working as a doctor, which is a very demanding profession, so he probably was not around all that much. This left Edward to his own devices most of the time. Even with all the things to study and do, I'm sure Edward got restless and this might explain why he eventually rebelled later on after Carlisle got Esme.

Also, since Edward could read minds, I'm sure it was a bit off-putting for Carlisle to go from completely alone to having someone in his head constantly. This might have caused a bit of tension to form between the two, with Carlisle probably wanting a bit of privacy once in a while. Add to that Edward is trying to come to terms with what has happened to him, it might not be so helpful to be able to hear the things people are thinking about him, or even the thoughts and memories that Carlisle might have to share unintentionally.

Anyway, I'm sure they were both able to get past all that, seeing how well they get along now. Edward has nothing but respect for Carlisle, and Carlisle thinks very highly of Edward as well. They are both very caring and compassionate, and I'm sure that is something that bonded them from the start.
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