Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby roseaurora » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:07 am

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:

Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)


First... my answer is NO! I won't go over it all again, because it has been articulated better than I could ever manage above me!

However...

The one thing that Edward does that rubbed me the wrong way... and kind of still does... is in Twilight, when Bella doesn't want to run with him to the baseball game. I know some people really love this scene... but the way he manipulated her into doing something she didn't want to do just creeps me out a bit. Would have liked it better if he convinced her to trust him without using his "charms" on her the way that he did...

... I know I am most likely alone on this, but wanted to put my POV on it out there...
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:16 am

roseaurora wrote:The one thing that Edward does that rubbed me the wrong way... and kind of still does... is in Twilight, when Bella doesn't want to run with him to the baseball game. I know some people really love this scene... but the way he manipulated her into doing something she didn't want to do just creeps me out a bit. Would have liked it better if he convinced her to trust him without using his "charms" on her the way that he did...

... I know I am most likely alone on this, but wanted to put my POV on it out there...


I don't think you're alone, RoseAurora. This scene didn't bother me as much as some others. I always kind of chalked it up to being similar to prom, or the wedding. Edward believed that, once Bella got used to running, she really would enjoy it. Edward was trying to get Bella out of her comfort zone a little, trying to get her to try new things. In this case, it turned out he was right (of course, when isn't he) But, I agree, he could have done it without dazzling her.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:32 am

Just wanted to make sure you all knew I responded to Jazz Girl's question about life when it was just Edward and Carlisle. It's the last post on page 3.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby roseaurora » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:41 am

Thanks for the response Jazz Girl and to hear that while you don't necessarily agree with me, you see where I am coming from :)

Jazz Girl wrote: Question Time:
What do you think life was like when it was just Carlisle and Edward?[/b]


Based on what they expected Bella to be like as a newborn, I am curious as to what it was like for Carlisle dealing with newborn Edward. I don't imagine that Carlisle was able to work for those early years while helping Edward "adjust" to his new life, and to the diet that went against his new instincts. I also wonder what it was like when Edwards gift kicked in. If it started out weak and then grew and developed.

I think those first years were very hard on both of them, but that they bonded over the experience. I don't think that Carlisle would have felt uncomfortable with Edward's mind reading at all, and that that ability helped them bond. Edward looks up to Carlisle, even after decades of knowing his thoughts, I think that is very high praise!
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Esme echo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:54 am

If I were Carlisle and I had a newborn on my hands, I'd move far away from people for a while! I wouldn't be living in the city working as a doctor, leaving my newborn all alone during the day--or rather, night! I wonder if they visited Denali? I wouldn't be surprised if the first few months were somewhere remote.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby eclipserox » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:14 am

Another good question, Jazz Girl. I don't think Carlisle was expecting an out of control newborn, as he was fairly controlled and had not seen any out of control newborns. And, I think Edward probably reacted similarly to Carlisle-thinking he was evil, not wanting to hurt anyone even if it meant he had to suffer, considering killing himself. I do think Carlisle struggled with his decision to change Edward and was probably very worried that Edward would be angry or unhappy. At the same time, Carlisle was so lonely, that he was probably excited to have any company, even a companion who was angry with him. I think Edward was probably unhappy at first. He woke up, realized that his mother was dead, and his life as he knew it was over. We know that he viewed himself as a soulless monster. We know that Edward did not initially realize he could read minds and answered thoughts as though they were spoken questions. So, he probably told Carlisle exactly how he felt and Carlisle probably caught on quickly and was amazed and intrigued. Edward would then realize he was reading Carlisle's mind, and Carlisle was so caring and kind and felt awful. I think at that point, they would begin getting along very well. Edward is not unkind and would not want to hurt Carlisle, even if Edward was upset. Carlisle helped Edward adjust and, in a very real way, became a father figure for Edward. Edward is a lot like Carlisle--great self control, interest in medicine, desire to do the right thing, etc. I think this shows that Edward emulated Carlisle and respected him greatly. I wonder how Edward felt when Carlisle changed Esme. I wonder if he felt at all jealous of Carlisle's new companion and the attention that Carlisle was giving Esme. I wonder if Edward thought he no longer belonged. I don't think Edward disliked Esme at all-they obviously became very close. But I wonder if Edward felt for a few seconds like everything was changing and Carlisle no longer needed him.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby bite_me » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:40 am

I think it makes sense for carlisle to go to denali, tanya and that would be able to help with the newborn edward, and it is in a remote place, so it would be easier.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Kachiti » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:21 am

eclipserox wrote:Another good question, Jazz Girl. I don't think Carlisle was expecting an out of control newborn, as he was fairly controlled and had not seen any out of control newborns. And, I think Edward probably reacted similarly to Carlisle-thinking he was evil, not wanting to hurt anyone even if it meant he had to suffer, considering killing himself. I do think Carlisle struggled with his decision to change Edward and was probably very worried that Edward would be angry or unhappy. At the same time, Carlisle was so lonely, that he was probably excited to have any company, even a companion who was angry with him. I think Edward was probably unhappy at first. He woke up, realized that his mother was dead, and his life as he knew it was over. We know that he viewed himself as a soulless monster. We know that Edward did not initially realize he could read minds and answered thoughts as though they were spoken questions. So, he probably told Carlisle exactly how he felt and Carlisle probably caught on quickly and was amazed and intrigued. Edward would then realize he was reading Carlisle's mind, and Carlisle was so caring and kind and felt awful. I think at that point, they would begin getting along very well. Edward is not unkind and would not want to hurt Carlisle, even if Edward was upset. Carlisle helped Edward adjust and, in a very real way, became a father figure for Edward. Edward is a lot like Carlisle--great self control, interest in medicine, desire to do the right thing, etc. I think this shows that Edward emulated Carlisle and respected him greatly. I wonder how Edward felt when Carlisle changed Esme. I wonder if he felt at all jealous of Carlisle's new companion and the attention that Carlisle was giving Esme. I wonder if Edward thought he no longer belonged. I don't think Edward disliked Esme at all-they obviously became very close. But I wonder if Edward felt for a few seconds like everything was changing and Carlisle no longer needed him.


I agree whole heartedly, because it was Carlisle that discovered Edward's ability. However, I disagree on the out of control newborn. Carlisle had spent several decades with the Volturi, so I'm sure Carlisle had some idea what to expect when it came to newborns.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:52 am

Jazz Girl wrote:
Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:

Is Edward an abusive boyfriend? (I don't think so. Some people assume so though.)


Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3, as well as my fellow posters, forgive my semi-laziness. As many of you know, I have extremely strong views on this topic. So, I am going to copy what I posted on the Edward & Bella thread in response to an article post put there. I am sure it makes my thoughts quite clear.

Murnau, first, welcome to our little community. Thank you for your well-reasoned and thought provoking post. However, on the whole, I think you make the same mistakes that those who condemn the Harry Potter series for condoning witchcraft and black magic make. You look at the surface without taking the time to truly understand the message. Let me start by saying that this is a topic that has been covered in much discussion on the Lex. And I have posted on many of those discussions. As I read your post, I wear many hats; Twilighter, woman, social worker, advocate for abused women and children, and survivor of a violent adolescent relationship. I will preface these thoughts as I did the previous: I do not put myself out there as an expert on feminism or violent relationships. What I say is strictly from my point of view and is based solely on my experiences working with survivors, and being a survivor...

As strongly as I feel about that issue, it is your assertion, not only that the relationship between Edward and Bella is abusive, but that this is, in some way, glorifying or even normalizing, abusive relationships that really snaps my teeth together. I will take exception to your examples first, and then address your further assumptions about violent relationships in general,

As you have already put it out there as, "the most alarming moment", we can stick with the incident involving Bella's truck. Let me start by saying that, on the face of it, this incident, an incident where a boyfriend removes a piece of the engine to prevent his girlfriend from leaving her home to visit someone would qualify, both legally and socially, as domestic violence. However, there are two factors that you so completely overlook and write off that completely alter the situation.

First, the supernatural/magical elements to the story add a context to the event that cannot be overlooked. In this case, Edward removes a piece of the engine to prevent Bella from visiting her friend Jacob. But, let's throw in to the story that Jacob is a werewolf, and a young werewolf at that. Werewolves, particularly young ones, are notoriously unstable, unable to control their emotions. They are also highly dangerous when they are unstable. Also add in that Edward is a vampire and the werewolves are his sworn mortal enemies. And, finally, add in that, within the circle of friends is a woman who has been gravely injured by her werewolf fiance in a momentary loss of control, a freak accident by someone who is much older and in better control than the boy Bella is going to meet. Also a factor, Bella seems to be stalked by horrible accidents. Fate is really trying to kill her and Edward believes he is fighting fate at every turn trying to keep Bella alive. Finally, add it that Bella seems to do everything she can to give fate a free shot at her.

Second, a factor that you so freely and blithely write-off, are Edward's intentions. Individuals who abuse their partners have an incredibly self-centered view of the world. Everything is all about them; their feelings, thoughts, beliefs, wants and needs, and how other things that happen reflect on them. They refuse to recognize that they are responsible for anything or that their actions cause anyone pain or hurt. In this case, Edward's intentions are only to protect Bella, to keep her alive. Edward recognizes almost immediately that what he did hurt Bell, and he immediately changes his beliefs and his behavior. He encourages Bella to visit Jacob, even driving her to Jake's place. Relationship abuse is all about power and control. When I am teaching, I use the following definition:
"domestic violence is the use of power and control within an intimate relationship that threatens
another's well-being."
Every relationship has different power dynamics. In some cases, one partner might have more money or be physically stronger or more successful in the community. What matters is how that dynamic plays out in the relationship itself. Edward's actions, while tip toeing the line on one or two occassions, never are intended to hurt Bella, and in fact are intended to do the opposite. And, on those one or two occassions, Edward immediately recognizes his fault, admits it, and changes his behavior. Believe me when I say, if the relationship were in any way abusive, that wouldn't happen.

As for your assertion that Edward used emotional manipulation to coerce Bella into getting married, this will be the one time I openly tell you you are wrong. Again, it is the supernatural elements to the story that contradict you outright. It would be different if Bella wasn't committed to the relationship, was questioning it in some way. But, Bella has already decided that she wants to commit her life to Edward by having him change her into a vampire; in my opinion a little more committed than marriage. Bella doesn't see the need for a wedding when she is already giving him forever. Bella has been raised by a mother who married early and without much thought. She feels she made a huge mistake and has ingrained her daughter with her fears and prejudices. Bella, like many of us, was raised in a time and environment where marriage is a sort of formality that we go through; something that can be done and undone just as easily. To her, her true committment to Edward is in her transformation. But, Edward is a man born in 1901 and raised in a differnt time, when marriage was the only form of committment there was, and it truly meant something to everyone. Edward doesn't coerce her or blackmail her. He listens as Bella explains why she is afraid of marriage, and explains to her why he thinks it is so important. Then, he asks her to understand. It is no different than the compromises many of us reach about our weddings. Who amongst us can honestly say that there wasn't something they did in their wedding that they didn't agree with 100%, but they did it anyway to satisfy their partner or a family member or their community.


Jazz Girl...you astonish me. I loved that. Your post was the most amazing response I've ever read. Kudos to you! :)
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Bluemoonlvr » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:13 am

Okay Im new to the board.
I have a question you know that Edawrd said that he didnt always live with Carlisle. And that he lived on his own. When he was on his own was he a veggie? And maybe was this when Edward was a newborn?
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