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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby roseaurora » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:30 pm

There has been a lot of discussion, in various locations, about Edward's reaction to Bella's pregnancy and whether people agree with it or not. But, Carlisle had the same reaction, he too wanted to end it. And I realize the biggest difference is that Edward was the father, but still... I thought that might be an interesting topic to talk about... Carlisle's reaction to Bella's pregnancy. Thoughts?
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby navarre » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:28 pm

roseaurora wrote:There has been a lot of discussion, in various locations, about Edward's reaction to Bella's pregnancy and whether people agree with it or not. But, Carlisle had the same reaction, he too wanted to end it. And I realize the biggest difference is that Edward was the father, but still... I thought that might be an interesting topic to talk about... Carlisle's reaction to Bella's pregnancy. Thoughts?


I believe Carlisle's concern was medical only. He really saw this as a HUGE problem. My thing is that he must have been aware of stories, because when Edward asked him "Is this possible?" Whatever Carlisle told him must have been enough for Edward to react in the negative way that he did.

With the human mothers not surviving the birth, they knew that this was a fatal situation of they did not get the baby out of her before it could fully develope.

The question is, how much of these legends did Carlisle know. He claimed to NOT know enough to warn them of this possibility, yet I still question what he must have said to Edward on the phone. He knew enough that's for sure.

I know people have been aghast over Edward's desire to end the pregnancy, but considering that this was not a usual pregnancy and the risks were too high, I understand Edward and even Carlisle's desire to save Bella's life over the child's. I think they certainly did not understand enough about the rapid development of the baby until they saw it happening and then they were watching it slowly deplete Bella of her strength and eventually her life with it breaking her bones and beating the hell out of her from the inside out.

IDK. I hope I am making sense. :?
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Kachiti » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:30 pm

roseaurora wrote:There has been a lot of discussion, in various locations, about Edward's reaction to Bella's pregnancy and whether people agree with it or not. But, Carlisle had the same reaction, he too wanted to end it. And I realize the biggest difference is that Edward was the father, but still... I thought that might be an interesting topic to talk about... Carlisle's reaction to Bella's pregnancy. Thoughts?


You know I've thought about that. I think the only reason Carlisle was going to end the baby's life was because he thought that's what Bella and Edward wanted. I think he would have started having doubts when he realized that Bella wanted to have the baby. After all he's a doctor and his job is to save lives. Even if Esme hadn't sided with Bella and Edward had begged, I just can't see him going against Bella wishes.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby redlips » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:26 pm

Wow, Carlisle really can't do anything wrong - Mr Nice Guy all round!

I agree with everything said above, he would have done only what he thought Edward and Bella wanted, but seriously...I still don't think he could kill a baby, mutant vampire offspring or not.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby SenorGimp » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:59 pm

I believe, and this might just be me, that the main reason for Carlisle's wanting to 'get it out' of Bella, was due to Edward, not the other way around. Carlisle took Edward in some 90 years ago, and wants nothing more than for his adopted son to be happy, and he has been happy with Bella. The baby inside bella's womb was threatening Bella's life, therefore threatening Edward's happiness. It was not a question of taking Edward's or Bella's side, he took the side of Edward's happiness.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:04 pm

I think he was very unsure of what the child would be, just like Edward was. From a purely medical standpoint, a doctor would not encourage pregnancy if the mother was unfit for the birth. And Bella was definitely not made to be birthing half-vampire babies. I am pretty sure that Carlisle would have wanted to do what was best for Bella, not just what Bella and Edward wanted. If Bella and Edward decided they wanted to go out and murder half of Washington, I doubt Carlisle would be behind them. Carlisle wants people to be happy, but he also wants people to live.

If he felt Bella would kill herself by keeping the baby, he would want to terminate the pregnancy. Especially if he thought the chances of both Bella and the baby dying were high, which I think he might have suspected in the beginning. Even when it was clear that the baby would survive, but Bella would likely die, I think he would still disagree with the decision to keep it. For one, as a doctor, Carlisle understands the hormonal changes that occur in a woman during pregnancy. Plus, he knows Bella and her judgment of danger, which up to this point had not been very good. With those things combined I think he had an even better understanding than Edward did of why Bella might want to keep the child, yet he would have still seen it as a form of suicide. He could not sit by and watch Bella kill herself for something that was completely unknown to them all.

I'm not trying to advocate abortion or make excuses for Carlisle and Edward, I just think that the whole situation was a product of uncertainty and fear of the unknown. And I really think if given the choice between either A) Save Bella B) Save unknown offspring C) Both Bella and unknown offspring die, both Carlisle and Edward would choose A.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby roseaurora » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:12 pm

I think I may need to reread BD before I know how to address this.

Seems to me that Edward fed of off Carlisle's pessimism about what was growing inside of Bella. When Edward talks to Carlisle on the phone to get his input, it is what Carlisle says that spurs Edward forward to get Bella home and whatever is in her out.

I think that Carlisle is genuinely afraid of what is developing in Bella.

I can't gather my thoughts on this without addressing Carlisle's views on vampires... if he sees them as monsters the way that Edward does.

He fought his nature and tried to end his existence when he realized what had become. However, we also know that Carlisle believes there is an after life for his kind. Is this only for those who are like his family and do not take human life? If Carlisle views vampires as inherently evil, then he would share similar fears as Edward does over the pregnancy.

Add in his understanding of vampire and human physiology and I think he approached this issue in much broader way that just "what does Edward want".

Wow... I am all over the place with this... I think I need to think on this a bit longer, haha, didn't realize how complicated it would get in my brain until I started typing.....
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Kachiti » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:20 pm

Heart_in_Hand wrote:I think he was very unsure of what the child would be, just like Edward was. From a purely medical standpoint, a doctor would not encourage pregnancy if the mother was unfit for the birth. And Bella was definitely not made to be birthing half-vampire babies. I am pretty sure that Carlisle would have wanted to do what was best for Bella, not just what Bella and Edward wanted. If Bella and Edward decided they wanted to go out and murder half of Washington, I doubt Carlisle would be behind them. Carlisle wants people to be happy, but he also wants people to live.

If he felt Bella would kill herself by keeping the baby, he would want to terminate the pregnancy. Especially if he thought the chances of both Bella and the baby dying were high, which I think he might have suspected in the beginning. Even when it was clear that the baby would survive, but Bella would likely die, I think he would still disagree with the decision to keep it. For one, as a doctor, Carlisle understands the hormonal changes that occur in a woman during pregnancy. Plus, he knows Bella and her judgment of danger, which up to this point had not been very good. With those things combined I think he had an even better understanding than Edward did of why Bella might want to keep the child, yet he would have still seen it as a form of suicide. He could not sit by and watch Bella kill herself for something that was completely unknown to them all.

I'm not trying to advocate abortion or make excuses for Carlisle and Edward, I just think that the whole situation was a product of uncertainty and fear of the unknown. And I really think if given the choice between either A) Save Bella B) Save unknown offspring C) Both Bella and unknown offspring die, both Carlisle and Edward would choose A.


First, do no harm. Medically speaking, Carlisle is a healer and peace marker. It doesn't matter how many hormones are going through Bella body, Carlisle will respect Bella's wishes. Knowing Carlisle, he probably explain the what was happening to her medically and when she said no, then he backed off. Carlisle would never force his medically superiority over Bella personal decision.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Kachiti wrote:
Heart_in_Hand wrote:I think he was very unsure of what the child would be, just like Edward was. From a purely medical standpoint, a doctor would not encourage pregnancy if the mother was unfit for the birth. And Bella was definitely not made to be birthing half-vampire babies. I am pretty sure that Carlisle would have wanted to do what was best for Bella, not just what Bella and Edward wanted. If Bella and Edward decided they wanted to go out and murder half of Washington, I doubt Carlisle would be behind them. Carlisle wants people to be happy, but he also wants people to live.

If he felt Bella would kill herself by keeping the baby, he would want to terminate the pregnancy. Especially if he thought the chances of both Bella and the baby dying were high, which I think he might have suspected in the beginning. Even when it was clear that the baby would survive, but Bella would likely die, I think he would still disagree with the decision to keep it. For one, as a doctor, Carlisle understands the hormonal changes that occur in a woman during pregnancy. Plus, he knows Bella and her judgment of danger, which up to this point had not been very good. With those things combined I think he had an even better understanding than Edward did of why Bella might want to keep the child, yet he would have still seen it as a form of suicide. He could not sit by and watch Bella kill herself for something that was completely unknown to them all.

I'm not trying to advocate abortion or make excuses for Carlisle and Edward, I just think that the whole situation was a product of uncertainty and fear of the unknown. And I really think if given the choice between either A) Save Bella B) Save unknown offspring C) Both Bella and unknown offspring die, both Carlisle and Edward would choose A.


First, do no harm. Medically speaking, Carlisle is a healer and peace marker. It doesn't matter how many hormones are going through Bella body, Carlisle will respect Bella's wishes. Knowing Carlisle, he probably explain the what was happening to her medically and when she said no, then he backed off. Carlisle would never force his medically superiority over Bella personal decision.


I didn't say he would. I was just pointing out that I disagree with people saying Carlisle only agreed with Edward to make him happy. I really think Carlisle felt that the baby was a problem, and would have removed it if Bella would have let him. Not because Bella or Edward thought it was best, but because, medically, Carlisle would have thought it was best. Of course he would never force the abortion on Bella, but that does not mean that he agreed with her point of view about keeping it.

Also keep in mind that I am not saying Carlisle was right. I'm just responding to the question about how Carlisle felt about the pregnancy and why he might have "wanted it out" of Bella.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:01 pm

I have to go with a combination of the above, as well. First, let me address what I think Carlisle's initial reaction was. Despite Carlisle's claims to the contrary, he had to at least known of the stories of the incubus. He might have doubted their validity, but if a Google search turned up some information and he is familiar with Tanya, Kate and Irina's exploits, the succubus, he had to be aware of the possibility. Whether he put enough stock in the old legends to add that to Edward's already considerable pile of stuff on which to dwell before the wedding and honeymoon is a whole other ballgame. So, then, fastforward to day 17 on Isle Esme. In BD, as they are discussing going home, Edward says to Bella, "Don't be afraid. We'll be home in sixteen hours. You'll be fine. Carlisle will be ready when we get there. We'll take care of this, and you'll be find, you'll be fine" (p 133) Nowhere in the previous passages do we hear Edward suggest any course of action. He is still in shock that it is even possible. He immediately asks after Bella's safety and what the child might be, but that's it. So, when he says, "Carlisle will be ready when we get there," then clarifies, "We're going to get that thinkg our before it can hurt any part of you," the action plan had to be Carlisle's. The anger and fear are certainly Edward's, but with a serious dose of Carlisle added in, as I am sure he was terrified both for the sanity of his son and the safety of his new daughter. But, the plan to abort the fetus was Carlisle's.
But, this fits in with everything we know about Carlisle. Carlisle has always taken his oath to protect life and limb very seriously. And, for those of you who would argue that the fetus was life deserving of protection too, they didn't know that. What they knew was this was a wholly unknown creature which was already starting to make Bella sick, advancing much more rapidly than was at all normal. And, take a moment to add in what Carlisle knew about the immortal children, particularly of how they behaved, and of the taboo and the consequences to all those with any knowledge of them. He would immediately see this offspring as a threat to his entire family, period. I can only imagine that, in the absence of proof, his mind immediately assumed this would be like an immortal child, but 1000 times worse, forever a newborn with the temper and instincts and reactions of a neonate that would never develop beyond that, but with the strength and senses of a vampire. Can you even imagine the horror? I am sure Carlisle could.
So, yes, his initial reaction would be to remove the threat before it could destroy everything he loved. And, once Bella got home, having decided to keep the baby and enlisting Rose to protect them, he would have no choice but to do everything he could to at least save Bella, save her from herself. So he studied and he researched and he worked tirelessly to find out everything and anything he could about what this thing possibly could be. But, until Edward heard its' thoughts, they had no way of knowing. While I don't think Carlisle would have acted as Edward would have, jumping on the least sign of doubt to get rid of the baby. He certainly would have been prepared to destroy whatever came out, if it turned out to be what he feared.
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