Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Breaking Dawn.

Moderators: Bronze Haired Girl, una

Forum rules
Click for Forum Rules

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby suzzeeQ » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:40 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?
[color=#400080Yes. Bella was the woman he loved. Now she is sick and dying and it's Edwards fault (from Jacob's P.O.V.)[/color]
2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?
Yes, I was surprised. I was horrified. I can't believe how quickly her body changed.
3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?
I was surprised she went to Rosalie. I understand why though. I hate that family was divided.
4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?
I think he was right about Jacob knowing Bella better than he did. Jacob loved Bella, but he didn't hold as high on a pedestal as Edward did.
5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?
For me it depends if Renesmee lived or not. She is his daughter and is half of Bella. It would have been selfish of him to die when Renesmee needed him.
User avatar
suzzeeQ
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:23 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby xxxDarkMoonxxx » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:50 pm

1. I feel that Jacob was totally justified in going to the Cullens. Though it was against the rules i can see his reasons on why he had to. Jacob needed to know if Bella was actually really sick or if she was actually a vampire. Given the situation i think anyone would have made the same choice.

2. I figured out right in the beginning that Bella would have a hard time with her pregnancy so her health didn't really surprise me.

3. I was really surprised that she would go to Rosalie because Rosalie made it perfectly clear that they would probably never be friends. I actually was shocked that others were siding with Bella but when i thought about all of the different personalities and relationships between them it wasn't too hard to believe.

4. I agree whole heartedly that Jacob understands Bella more then Edward. We saw this in New Moon. Jacob could just know things about her from observation. We all know that Bella is a open book, but for some reason Edward could never read her quite so well since he never had to look at body language.

5. Oh god yes i knew it would come to that. Edward knew that none of his family would do it and he knew he couldn't go back to the Volturi, so what better choice then to get Jacob Black to do it. He knew Jacob would want revenge and he seized it.
xxxDarkMoonxxx
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby Jadey » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:22 am

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?
He had every right to go see whats happening, but he had no right to go to cause a fight...Bella isn't his, he needs to stop getting himself involved and accept that fact that shes with Edward. Going there to start a fight was just plain rude and arrogant.
2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?
I knew instantly ever since finding out that she was pregnant that this baby would cause some kind of trouble because its not completely human.. so I wasn't shocked by the effects of it.
3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?
I thought Bella would've turned to Alice since they so close... but I guess she knew Rosalie would be understandable and helpful, because a baby is what she wanted... Im glad the family feels just as strongly as Edward on that issue. I began to hate Rosalie again because of it.
4. Edward says several times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?
I don't think he knew Bella better. Sure, he knew a lot about unimportant things and things on the outside, but Edward knew her best/worst qualities, knew whats in her heart and knew all the deep stuff all that. Jacob just knew things about her that any other person could figure out.
5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?
I actually thought that was so sweet. Not having jacob kill him, but being strong enough to deal with the consequence of what could happen. I knew he would kill himself or find another way to die. Edward wouldn't outlive Bella by long anyway..
Image
^ by ForJazz
Image
"Theres a lot of like, feminist issues with the book. Like, 'Oh, she's so devoted to him' and well yeah, she's in love with him"
- Kristen Stewart
User avatar
Jadey
Resisting Temptation With Carlisle
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:43 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby Renesmee101 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?

I did, mainly because I disagreed with Sam's stance on the situation in the first place.

2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?

Not really. We saw how just a few days after she'd concieved there was already a bump and nudging. So while it was gruesome to read about her terrible state, I wasn't entirely suprised.

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?

It made as much sense as Bella ever does. She knew that there wasn't a very good chance that she'd survive, and she chose the one person who not only was desperate to have a baby of her own, but also was conveniently the one person willing to take a stand against Edward - and that's Rosalie. And naturally the division from there makes sense because of the others personalities.

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?

I do agree with this. Everything Bella does takes Edward by suprise, but Jacob knows in seconds her actions, motives, and thoughts. We saw this most in New Moon when Jacob knew without Bella having to say a thing that she didn't like music, and various other things that most people would never have caught.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?

I thought it might come to that, but I didn't think Jake would do it. For one, Jacob still has the somewhat innocent mind of a 16-17 year old boy, and I think that he's too naturally pacifistic to actually kill Edward. Second, I thought that Jacob would have let Edward stay alive and suffer for the rest of his existance. In Jake's eyes, that would have been worse than a thousand deaths, especially now that he knew how permanent and rare changes were for vampires.
Image
Team Turtle: Thats how we roll
Skank Pack: Taylor's "V"
Dork Squad
Check out Team Taycob!! http://teamtaycob.webs.com/
User avatar
Renesmee101
Helping Mike to Get a Clue
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:50 pm
Location: on a stage infront of a sold out Madison Square Garden, mic in hand, singing my heart out.

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby Lunna-san » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:09 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?

Well... yes. He was Bella's friends and he was concerned about her and her welfare. He didn't trust the Cullens. I may not like his atitude. And this was what Bella wanted. But I think that Jacob, as her friend,had his reaons.

2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?

The whole pregnancy was so... freakish. It was like watching a terror movie or something. I really deslike that part of the book. It was so difficult to read it.

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?

When she called Rosalie, I was expecting something like this. Rosalie was the right person to ask for help. because Rosalie, most of any of the Cullens had a deep desire of getting back her human life.

The Cullens reactions were not surprising, because it was something very complicated. But I was more upset because Alice had practically desappeared of the story!

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?

If Jacob understood Bella so well, he wouldn't have tried to start a fight between the pack and the Cullens. Because this was totally against what Bella wanted. I think Edward was deeply depressed about everything. He was simply dying with Bella. He was desperate.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?

If Bella died, Edward would try to kill himself in anyway. Jacob was just an easy way and a form to compensate Jacob for what he had suffered, Edward promised to take care of Bella and now Bella was dying.

I don't think things would get that extreme. Because there is the element Renesmee. I think she'd have asked Edward to stay and Jacob to stop. I do think Edward meant it when he said that to Jacob. But with Renesmee... things would probably be different.
User avatar
Lunna-san
Helping Mike to Get a Clue
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby RebeccaCullen » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:15 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?

I thought that Jake wasn't justified. He knew that she was going to be changed, and starting a war with the Cullens wouldn't have helped his case.

2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?

I was a bit surprised at how quick that she had changed. The last we had seen of her she was in perfect health, so to speak, and only showing minute signs of being preggers.

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?

Not really. She knew that Rose wanted a child, and would do anything to have one. To me it seemed only natural that she would ask Rose to help her, she knew if she didn't make the change there would be someone who would care for the child.

Em did seem to go with what ever Rose wanted, so I really wasn't surprised there. Carlisle couldn't make Bella do anything she didn't want to do, no matter what his medical mind said. And like with Em, Esme backed Carlisle.

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?

I disagree with this. I do think that Bella being pregant played with his mind because both of them failed to see that the only thing that would mean more to Bella would be a mini Edward. Edward only saw Bella wanting children, Jake saw this as a way to knock up the girl he wanted and have something to keep him in her life. They weren't the only ones to fail to see what Bella really cared about. They just wanted her to not have the child.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?

It sure as hell made it easier for him to see her in the afterlife without having to take a trip to Italy again.
Image
User avatar
RebeccaCullen
Hanging Up on Jessica
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:15 pm
Location: Surrey BC

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby inhiding » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:42 am

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders? I don't think Jacob really would have started a fight. I think if it came down to it, he just needed someone to blame and lash out against. I think even if he had seen Bella as a gorgeous vampire, he would not have been able to hurt her by hurting the Cullens. It was never about the treaty, though, we all know that. Jacob was never about upholding the treaty for the sake of his people, it was always about Bella.

2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?
I wasn't at all surprised that this would push her limits even further. How could it not? I was surprised that it went so fast. Nothing else in their stories was rushed, so it was an unexpected twist that a half-vampire baby would have a fast pregnancy and childhood. It was frightening to see her so hurt by her child. Personally, I would have felt scared knowing my baby was half-vampire and so very very strong.

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue? Well, considering you had Rose's story as a bit of foreshadowing, no, this was not surprising. Finally, Bella made a choice Rose could agree with, and that Rose would whole heartedly support. I think we see her from Edward and Jacob's perspective, as a greedy little baby-monger. But I do believe she had her heart (no pun intended) in the right place, protecting Bella as much as she was protecting the baby. I didn't feel like the family was too divided over the situation. Again, because at this point, we only see it through Jacob's eyes, and he's barely told of the situation. It seemed natural that the women who both lost their chances at having a children, would want this not only for their family, but for Bella knowing she would never have another chance.

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?

Jacob ABSOLUTELY understands Bella better. So before you jump down my throat, let me make my case.
Jacob says that Bella's thoughts are so clear they might as well be printed on her forehead.(BD maybe? Can't remember exactly which book) He can tell how she feels about Rose by the way she sets her lips when she talks about her (BD). He can tell she doesn't like music, which rankles even Bella because she never said this to him (NM). He can tell she doesn't even like hearing the Cullen's names in NM, he can tell she's trying to hold herself together. He can tell she would always forgive him (E) and most importantly, he can tell she loves him even when she couldn't admit it to herself (E).

By contrast, Edward is constantly FRUSTRATED because he can't hear her thoughts. He's always asking what she's thinking, he's always staring into her eyes trying to figure her out. He even says "I'm sure she will surprise me, she always does" (BD) and "I'm often wrong about your thoughts, aren't I?" (BD)

I think that this has always been one of the major characteristics that set them apart. I think there are a few reasons for this: 1) Edward is always watching OUT for Bella, whereas Jacob just...watches...her. 2) When you're falling in love, sometimes you project your own insecurities, and therefore, both Edward and Bella do hold back from each other so as not to hurt each other. (How many times does she admit it's a good thing he can't read her) 3) I think Edward is just so used to hearing people's thoughts, that he doesn't practice reading their facial and body expressions and finally 4) Bella and Jacob were so naturally open with each other, that it made it easier for him to study Bella. Jacob understands he better because best friends just naturally fall into that area.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that? I thought it was typical Edward, and in his mind, probably poetic justice. I think Jacob was mad enough at that point to have done so sooner rather than later. But I also think that it shows just how much suffering Jacob was going through when he decided (later) he would not kill Edward but let him, make him, suffer his pain, bearing it just as Jacob was having to bear his pain. That he would not give Edward the peace that death would bring.
User avatar
inhiding
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:09 pm

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby Riddalyn » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:43 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?
I don't think he was justified to fight, but I don't think he actually would have fought anyone. I think that was just big talk, as we all know Jacob is prone to. I don't think he would hurt Bella that way, even though it's a threat he likes to use. But, no, I don't think he was completely justified.

2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?
I was a little surprised at the rapid growth, but not very about how frail and broken she seemed to be. I thought it was understandable about the strength of the baby's kicking and everything, seeing as how it was half vampire after all, and I understood that the baby drained her physically because of how fast everything was happening and the fact that her body seemed to reject EVERYTHING she took in. I didn't know why the baby grew so fast, but I accepted it pretty quickly. There are some things about vampires we can't understand, but must accept.

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?
I wasn't at all surprised that she would call Rose to help her... she knew that Rosalie wanted a baby more than anything else, that was the one reason why she hated being a vampire. She knew she'd help without a second thought. I think if we would have been able to see the situation from Rosalie or Bella's point of view as opposed to Jakes or even Edwards, it would have made Rose look less greedy.

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?
I always thought that both Edward and Jacob knew equal amounts about Bella... they just understand different parts of her. I think every thought he was having at the time was somewhat clouded by the pregnancy, but that's not really why he said it. I think he always thought this, privately, but was so exhausted and scared and just guilty that he finally said it out loud.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?
I thought it was normal for Edward to say something like that, but I was also a little pissed. I grow weary of death threats from Edward, especially when there are more important things at hand, like a child. (I know that he didn't want the child, he thought she was an abomination, but I could feel it in my gut that he would change his mind)
Image
Team Jake - Because I Can Take The HEAT
User avatar
Riddalyn
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:51 am
Location: My Silverwear Drawer.

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby maj25 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:14 am

haven't read breaking dawn=(
maj25
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:39 am

Re: Chapter 9: Sure As Hell Didn't See That One Coming

Postby ~*teamswitzerland*~ » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:39 pm

1. Do you feel Jacob was justified in going to the Cullens to confront Edward and possibly start a fight with the vampires even though he was going against Sam's orders?

I'm going to have to say yes, because you have to consider the fact that he was under the impression that Bella was dead. This was just his first instinct of how to react when he thinks the girl he loves is killed. Sorry, my wording probably sounds weird, because my brain is currently not functioning the way I want it to, considering it's 11:00pm here. :lol:
Oh, BTW:
Riddalyn wrote:I don't think he was justified to fight, but I don't think he actually would have fought anyone. I think that was just big talk, as we all know Jacob is prone to. I don't think he would hurt Bella that way, even though it's a threat he likes to use. But, no, I don't think he was completely justified.

He wasn't concerned about Bella's feelings, seeing as he thought she was dead. Just sayin'.


2. Since we as readers knew Bella was pregnant, did her physical appearance surprise you in the way that she looked so sick and frail? How did you feel about the rapid growth of her pregnancy and the effect it had on her body?

Umm, not really, but my opinion doesn't count, this part of the plot was spoiled for me; I was told that "in Breaking Dawn, Bella gets preggo and the baby starts draining the life out of her". I know, eh? :roll:

3. The ever present tension between Rosalie and Bella has virtually vanished due to Bella's pregnancy. Were you surprised that Bella asked Rose to act as her protector? How did you feel about Edward's explanation on how the family was divided over the issue?

Not really, because when Bella first called Rosalie, it clicked in my head that Rosalie would want to help Bella through the situation because she wants a baby more than anything else in the world. I didn't expect them to become so close, and Rosalie to be SO protective, I just thought that Rosalie would sort of try to help Bella through the situation. That's because I don't think outside the box.

4. Edward says sevearl times in this chapter that Jacob understood Bella better than he did. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment? Could Edward's thoughts be clouded by his involvement in the pregnancy, or do you feel that he was correct in saying that Jacob did understand her better?

I agree, because Jacob was really easy for Bella to become friends with and (sort of) fall in love with. It was totally natural for both of them, because they just connected so well. Also, Edward always seems to be surprised by Bella's reactions to everything he says, and I always realized he didn't understand her as well as he understands anyone else because she is the only mind he can't read. He probably relies on that 6th sense too much, so understanding a person based only on what they let you know about themself is a relatively new experience for him.

5. What did you feel about Edward's agreement with Jacob that if Bella died he would allow Jacob to kill him? Did you think it would come to that?

I didn't think it would come to that, because I didn't think that the main character (I'm referring to Bella, not Edward lol) would be killed in the end. Lol. But still, I liked how it was a win-win situation for them- Edward gets relief from a world without Bella, and Jacob gets to murder the guy who stole his woman!
Image
Taylor Lautner. (drool.) That is all. :)
User avatar
~*teamswitzerland*~
Teaching Eric Social Graces
 
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: shivering in Canada

PreviousNext

Return to A Perfect Piece of Forever

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron