Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Chapter by Chapter Eclipse Discussion

Moderators: December, Bronze Haired Girl

Forum rules
Click for Forum Rules

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby ForJazz926 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:43 pm

1. What do you think about the honesty the boys show each other?

Well Jacob couldn't really help it - Edward would have read his mind anyway. What Edward did was...unreal. I mean I can understand him being completely honest and letting Jacob into his head at time when he felt unyielding gratefulness to him...but in this scene it seems like Edward has never wanted to dispose of him more, and he chooses that time to share and be open. I can't wrap my mind around what he must have been feeling. This is one area where I REALLY hope that SM finishes the series from Edward's perspective. I thought maybe Edward's defenses were just 100% down - by the fact that this was one instance in which he could not help Bella, and he gave her over to Jacob. I was dumbfounded but riveted. Just another example of how Edward is not like any human boys. ;)

2. Are you surprised to see Edward admitting his jealousy and showing less patience?

I expected him tmo lose it a lot sooner, actually! I am surprised he held it together so long. I laughed out loud when he dumped Jacob out of the sleeping bag, and even HARDER when he asked Bella, "do you want me to take his arms all the way off?" I loved that whole scene. Eclipse rules.

3. How did you feel about Edward's four options regarding Bella?

I thought his decisions and his order of options was right on. I think he made the best choices possible. Fooling himself a little in thinking Bella would be okay if he left...but he realized how wrong he was.

4. What surprised you most about the conversation they had?

I might have been surprised that Edward let go of his edge over Jacob and let him into his brain, but I am no longer shocked at Edward's composure and integrity. Edward was emotionally broken down, and he was also feeling Jacob's pain, no matter how much he wanted to cause it instead. He was humbled by Bella's emotions, too - and decided to put himself on a level playing field with Jacob, and may the best man win - or whichever Bella wanted, anyway. He's just way out of any realistic human boy's league. I think I was most shocked that Jacob didn't remain bitter and biting the whole time. He let down his guard a bit and showed some warmth towards Edward - I didn't expect that from him.
Image

Image Image
User avatar
ForJazz926
Has Caught Sight of Edward
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: The Blue Room

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby akire » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:56 am

1. What do you think about the honesty the boys show each other?

Well... it was about time. Like ForJazz926 said, it's not like Jacob had a choice. But I love how Edward seems to rise above his jealousy of/irritation with the situation and share so freaking openly! I thought this was one of the most amazing conversations throughout the series

2. Are you surprised to see Edward admitting his jealousy and showing less patience?

Not really. Edward doesn't think Bella is listening, and he is more willing to be imperfect when she's not listening. Well... I guess she was awake for the part in the morning w/the sleeping bag and we all saw how much she liked that :)

3. How did you feel about Edward's four options regarding Bella?

As is the theme so much in the series (at least early on), it was more about what Edward thought was best for Bella. I didn't hear very much consideration of Bella's choices in those options.


4. What surprised you most about the conversation they had?

Hmm... the way they were just so freaking honest and open with each other. I mean, they are each other's #1 rival for Bella's affections, and they spoke like true friends.
Image

Image Image Image
User avatar
akire
Finding a Nice Guy for Angela
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:03 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby ForJazz926 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:58 am

akire wrote:As is the theme so much in the series (at least early on), it was more about what Edward thought was best for Bella. I didn't hear very much consideration of Bella's choices in those options


That is a really good point. I suppose this is everyone's #1 complaint about Edward - that he's controlling and always thinks he knows best. I can never figure him out completely, though. No matter how well I thought I knew this character, Midnight Sun completely blew my mind. I never minded any of his behavior, really - I would be more bothered if he WAS completely perfect. I think his "all or nothing" personality is very endearing, actually.

I want to think that his 4 options included not just his wish to stay with Bella, but Bella's wish to stay with him. If he would have thought of Bella there, the choices would have been in a different order. But you are completely right - in true Edward fashion - the goals in those options revolved more around keeping Bella safe than letting her choose. Edward's funny - he knows she's independent and used to taking care of others, and he even loves that about her. Yet he still takes on the role of her protector - as if he's assuming that she'd like the roles reversed for once in her life.
Image

Image Image
User avatar
ForJazz926
Has Caught Sight of Edward
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: The Blue Room

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby akire » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:21 pm

ForJazz926 wrote:
akire wrote:As is the theme so much in the series (at least early on), it was more about what Edward thought was best for Bella. I didn't hear very much consideration of Bella's choices in those options


That is a really good point. I suppose this is everyone's #1 complaint about Edward - that he's controlling and always thinks he knows best. I can never figure him out completely, though. No matter how well I thought I knew this character, Midnight Sun completely blew my mind. I never minded any of his behavior, really - I would be more bothered if he WAS completely perfect. I think his "all or nothing" personality is very endearing, actually.

I want to think that his 4 options included not just his wish to stay with Bella, but Bella's wish to stay with him. If he would have thought of Bella there, the choices would have been in a different order. But you are completely right - in true Edward fashion - the goals in those options revolved more around keeping Bella safe than letting her choose. Edward's funny - he knows she's independent and used to taking care of others, and he even loves that about her. Yet he still takes on the role of her protector - as if he's assuming that she'd like the roles reversed for once in her life.


OMG discussion on the chapter questions! Is that even allowed? :D We're REBELS.

I know exactly what you're saying about MS! I was in the "Bella should be with Jacob" camp (not on a team ;) ) UNTIL I read it. Then I was all... wait, what? I totally didn't get this guy.

Your comment about Bella being used to taking care of others made me think about it a little more-- part of what always bothered me about Edward's "I'm always right" attitude was Bella's (mostly) willingness to go along with it. I wonder if her willingness was her way of "taking care" of Edward. Subconsciously, of course.
Image

Image Image Image
User avatar
akire
Finding a Nice Guy for Angela
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:03 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby ForJazz926 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:10 am

akire wrote:OMG discussion on the chapter questions! Is that even allowed? :D We're REBELS.

I know exactly what you're saying about MS! I was in the "Bella should be with Jacob" camp (not on a team ;) ) UNTIL I read it. Then I was all... wait, what? I totally didn't get this guy.

Your comment about Bella being used to taking care of others made me think about it a little more-- part of what always bothered me about Edward's "I'm always right" attitude was Bella's (mostly) willingness to go along with it. I wonder if her willingness was her way of "taking care" of Edward. Subconsciously, of course.


Hahaha!! They'll have to drag me away in cuffs, I guess.

I feel like most of the characters are misunderstood - or at least not fully understood. They are so DEEP. I get sad when people "hate" one character or another. SM does SUCH a great job with character development! It's truly like they are real. And no matter what people say about them, on some level everyone can relate to bits and pieces of each character. They are too human.

So..."taking care of" Edward like humoring him? That's something I hadn't thought about. Maybe it was her motherly patience. Or maybe she really did just like being the one taken care of for a change - even though everything about her repelled the idea. Or maybe it's simply because he's so dreamy. *swoons*
Image

Image Image
User avatar
ForJazz926
Has Caught Sight of Edward
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: The Blue Room

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby akire » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:24 pm

ForJazz926 wrote:So..."taking care of" Edward like humoring him? That's something I hadn't thought about. Maybe it was her motherly patience. Or maybe she really did just like being the one taken care of for a change - even though everything about her repelled the idea. Or maybe it's simply because he's so dreamy. *swoons*


Well... the dreaminess has to be a factor! One of my absolutely FAVORITE parts of the saga is in the lunchroom when Edward is trying to get Bella to tell him her "theories" and he really turns on the charm! Oh, the hotness.

And now back to your regularly scheduled chapter questions... :D
Image

Image Image Image
User avatar
akire
Finding a Nice Guy for Angela
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:03 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby Dovrebanen » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:19 pm

First of all, I would like to say that this is one of my favorite chapters. I think we get to see so much of Edward and Jacob's thoughts here, and it really takes the story up a step.
1. What do you think about the honesty the boys show each other?
I loved it. Jacob had Edward in his head anyway, but for Edward to open up like that was really great to read. It seemed like he had completely put his guard down for a while.

2. Are you surprised to see Edward admitting his jealousy and showing less patience?
No, I think he should have done it a long time ago. He can't be so selfless. I liked that he showed how he really felt, instead of keeping it all locked up so that he wouldn't hurt Bella. But he probably didn't think that she was listening. I don't think he would have admitted how much it bothered him in front of her.
And I can just imagine how he must have felt when he could do nothing to keep Bella warm, and had to watch Jacob inside the sleeping bag with her. And Jacob shouting his thoughts for Edward to hear.. Of course he was jealous, and it was brave of him to admit that.

3. How did you feel about Edward's four options regarding Bella?
In New Moon he made the wrong decision. But I think he chose right in the end. There is no way that the two of them should stay away from eachother. I think that he should have talked more with Bella in New Moon and taken her opinion into consideration, and I think that he should have stayed. He was wrong, but he has also admitted that. I see that he has been critiziced for being to controlling and wanting to make all the decisions. I don't think that was the case. I think that he saw himself as the monster, and that it was his responsibility to leave. So I think he felt that Bella should not have to make that kind of decision.

4. What surprised you most about the conversation they had?
Just the general honesty from both of them. Especially Edward, since he did not have to share anything with Jacob. And I think it was great that Edward is finally able to say that he will fight for Bella, to really give all to try and keep her, but at the same time, he is willing to let her go if that's what she wants.
Image
Rob's Halfway House ~ Team Edward ~ Cullenist ~
User avatar
Dovrebanen
Red-Eyed Vampire
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:40 pm
Location: Norway.

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby sazykid » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:38 pm

1. What do you think about the honesty the boys show each other?
I don't think Jacob really had a choice because Edward can hear his thoughts. But, I was impressed with Edward and the fact that he was willing to be honest with Jake. Being honest with Jake shows he is willing to trust him enough to make Bella happy, and that he is being the bigger person.

2. Are you surprised to see Edward admitting his jealousy and showing less patience?
I was a little surprised because he is so good at hiding things from most people. However, by showing his jealousy and lack of patience he is showing Jake that he won't be giving up on Bella, and that if Bella chooses Jake then he won't stand in her way.

3. How did you feel about Edward's four options regarding Bella?
Well obviously hoping that she didn't love him was a lost cause, although, I think he may have still been hoping for that when he asked her if she wanted him or immortality more. Hoping she didn't love him was a lost cause back in Twilight lol. His ideal situation would be for her to stay with him for her human life, but Bella makes it quite clear that she does not want that. His decision to leave and make Bella not love him and live her human life was obviously a bad idea. In that situation both of them were miserable. His last option is to turn her into a vampire, and he does not want to do that because he doesn't want to subject her to eternal damnation.

It seems like Edward had her best interests at heart, but he was only doing what he thought was right. He should have talked to her about things more. If he had been more willing to hear Bella's side of things he could have understood what she wanted. I know Bella likes the fact that he can't hear her thoughts, but that would have helped her case a lot because he would have been forced to hear everything she had to say.


4. What surprised you most about the conversation they had?
I was really surprised that they were able to stay as in control as they did. A conversation like that would have been very hard to have. I was also surprised at Edward's honesty. He didn't have to tell Jake everything, but he did and I was kind of impressed with that.
sazykid
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:36 pm

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby Tonya » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:13 pm

1. What do you think about the honesty the boys show each other? I liked that they talked about it that way we got to hear more. But I don't think in real life 2 boys fighting for the same girl would talk like this. Edward I think he owed Jacob this for many reasons. 2 being because all Jake did for Bella and the fact that Edward already knows what Jake is thinking. It's only fair

2. Are you surprised to see Edward admitting his jealousy and showing less patience? No because of what I said before Edward owes him his honesty and I think Edward wants Jake to know how he really feels about Bella. Jake still thinks Edward is a monster trying to kill her.

3. How did you feel about Edward's four options regarding Bella? There was only ever one option in my eyes. He never should have left her. He knew how vampires avenge their mates. He should have known better than to leave her. Allowing her to grow old would have been so unfair to her. And the first option of her never falling in love with her was just nuts from the minute she laid eyes on him she wanted him. Even if he had stayed away from her she was already obsessed she felt the same pull he did.

4. What surprised you most about the conversation they had? That Jacob still thinks he could make Bella forget Edward. He doesn't understand their connection.
User avatar
Tonya
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:26 pm

Re: Chapter 22 ~ Fire and Ice

Postby Rosalie Fan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:57 pm

I love this chapter it is so funnt the tent is the best and i love it when jacob kissers her .. and edward cant do anyting about bella in the tent and is trying to stay as far away as possible form her . i love this chapter.
User avatar
Rosalie Fan
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Fire and Ice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests