Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ariadnee » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:03 pm

Esme echo wrote:As I pondered your response, it occurred to me that not only Bella, but Edward got everything he wished for by the end of Breaking Dawn.

Breaking Dawn was a good ending - I would not debate that. But I think that Edward didn't get quite everything that he could have wished for.

He was still a vampire. Yes, he was able to see himself as less of a monster. But I think he would have preferred to grow old with Bella as humans. Perhaps impossible - but something to wish for, nonetheless.

Thanks for listening - Ariadnee
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:09 pm

navarre wrote:
Esme echo wrote:
Dovrebanen wrote:That baby is part of him and Bella, she is the result of their forever love. And he loves Renesmee so much. That quote you had in from BD when he is leaving her with Jacob, is very powerful. It shows clearly a dad's love. Being a father was something he never thought he could, so it must be amazing for him.

As I pondered your response, it occurred to me that not only Bella, but Edward got everything he wished for by the end of Breaking Dawn.

He wished he and Bella had the potential to have children -- they did. He wished Bella was safe from danger -- she was. He was agonized over the idea that Bella would eventually hate him if she was transformed -- she was beyond happy as a vampire. He wanted to be happy with Bella the rest of his existence -- they had a very good chance at that! Your thought, "Being a father was something he never thought he could, so it must be amazing for him," was a revelation! Thank you!


That reminded me of the comment he made to Bella after their first night together at the cottage when he stated(I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the book in front of me) that it is not everyday that one gets everything they ever wanted and things they never thought to ask for. He did get his beloved Bella, a daughter, a new & beautiful forever.

Cool. 8-)

You guys, those are just so wonderful thoughts it almost makes me want to cry :cry: :D I really do think Edward wanted a family. And like he said in Eclipse (I think): He is that guy...He wanted to get married. If Bella had been around when he was human in 1918 he would have proposed, settled down and had a family with her. And now he got everything that he thought was lost to him forever. In my view, he was finally free of the monster-image he had imposed upon himself. He had done something right. He had created this beautiful daughter with the person who loved him more than anything. Everything worked out for the best for all of them, and he could take his proper position as a husband and a dad.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby akire » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:59 pm

ariadnee wrote:Breaking Dawn was a good ending - I would not debate that. But I think that Edward didn't get quite everything that he could have wished for.

He was still a vampire. Yes, he was able to see himself as less of a monster. But I think he would have preferred to grow old with Bella as humans. Perhaps impossible - but something to wish for, nonetheless.

Thanks for listening - Ariadnee


Hmm... I'm not sure about that, Ariadnee... I can't imagine Edward being satisfied with anything less than all of forever with Bella; or vice versa!
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Esme echo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:31 am

Perhaps in retrospect--at the end of Breaking Dawn--Edward thought had everything . . . because he and Bella had a child together and Bella did not miss out on that experience. Earlier in the saga Edward said he would do anything to become human for Bella, but that was before he knew they had the ability to have a child together, and before he knew that Bella would be a happy vampire.

I think ariadnee and akire have raised a good question. Knowing what Edward knew at the end of Breaking Dawn, would Edward still rather have been human with Bella, or was he satisfied with their vampire existence?
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:13 am

Esme echo wrote:Perhaps in retrospect--at the end of Breaking Dawn--Edward thought had everything . . . because he and Bella had a child together and Bella did not miss out on that experience. Earlier in the saga Edward said he would do anything to become human for Bella, but that was before he knew they had the ability to have a child together, and before he knew that Bella would be a happy vampire.

I think ariadnee and akire have raised a good question. Knowing what Edward knew at the end of Breaking Dawn, would Edward still rather have been human with Bella, or was he satisfied with their vampire existence?


Esme Echo~, what a fantastic question to ponder. "Knowing what Edward knew at the end of BD..." Well that's the key to the question, isn't it. From Edward's own mouth, we hear just how ecstaticly content he is with his life in those moments. "It isn't every day you get everything you ever wanted, along with everything you never thought to ask for." Ness' birth and Bella's transformation changed everything for Edward. If Ness had not been born, or if Bella had survived her birth human, it would be a completely different story. I think , in that case, than Edward would still long for Bella to stay human. And, his deepest desire would be for him to be human with her.

But, once Edward's hand is forced and he has to change her to save her life, it frees him from all of his fears and hang ups and self hatred. I truly believe that once Bella became a vampire, Edward couldn't hate himself for being a vampire any more. Hating himself for being a vampire would mean that he had to hate a part of Bella, as well. And that was never going to happen. So, Edward truly does find a reason to finally let go of the hatred he has for his nature and just revel in being the very fortunate man he is.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:50 am

Esme echo wrote:Perhaps in retrospect--at the end of Breaking Dawn--Edward thought had everything . . . because he and Bella had a child together and Bella did not miss out on that experience. Earlier in the saga Edward said he would do anything to become human for Bella, but that was before he knew they had the ability to have a child together, and before he knew that Bella would be a happy vampire.

I think ariadnee and akire have raised a good question. Knowing what Edward knew at the end of Breaking Dawn, would Edward still rather have been human with Bella, or was he satisfied with their vampire existence?

Excellent question! I think when Edward saw what a wonderful life they were going to have, he was overly happy about it. And I don't think he would have wanted it any other way at that point. Everything turned out so great. Bella was happy with being a vampire. She handled herself extremely well, and was still able to feel every bit of love for him as she had when she was human. They had a daughter, and everyone they knew were safe.
Jazz Girl wrote: . If Ness had not been born, or if Bella had survived her birth human, it would be a completely different story. I think , in that case, than Edward would still long for Bella to stay human. And, his deepest desire would be for him to be human with her. But, once Edward's hand is forced and he has to change her to save her life, it frees him from all of his fears and hang ups and self hatred. I truly believe that once Bella became a vampire, Edward couldn't hate himself for being a vampire any more. Hating himself for being a vampire would mean that he had to hate a part of Bella, as well. And that was never going to happen. So, Edward truly does find a reason to finally let go of the hatred he has for his nature and just revel in being the very fortunate man he is.

I think this is the very essence of it. If there were no Renesmee Edward would probably still be fighting to keep Bella human, because her soul was precious to him. Even though, after seeing him in Italy, I don't really believe that he didn't think he had a soul somewhere deep down. He certainly believed he was in some sort of afterlife. Anyway..Renesmee turned around his view on a lot of things. Instead of wishing he could be human for Bella, he wished that they would be happy forever. And I believe he truly got everything he could have wanted in the end. And I think you are very right, Edward could never hate what Bella was. So I think that with the knowledge and life he had at the end of BD, he had let his wish for humanity go, and embraced his life as vampire and family father.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Esme echo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:23 am

Who wouldn't want to be beautiful, powerful, super-intelligent, and able to smell a bear a mile away? :lol:

I think Edward was absolutely on the wall about the existence of a vampire after-life when he was in Italy. He was surprised that Carlisle was right when Bella ran into his arms in Volterra. I really think -- considering his pesimistic outlook -- he really expected to end up in some sort of limbo (at best), or -- more probably -- total extinction when he died.

In my mind, Bella being happy as a vampire was the total key to Edward's satisfaction as a vampire. Bella was not as good at being human as she was at being a vampire. As Aro commented to her, "It is as if you were designed for this life." Renesmee was definitely a wonderful addition to their family, but if Bella had never conceived her, Edward would still have been happy as long as Bella was happy.

But would he have had lingering regrets that Bella never had the chance to have a baby? Would Bella, over the years, mature enough to realize that nurturing children is an important aspect of being feminine? Those are the questions I don't really have an answer to. Bella may have remained oblivious -- in which case I don't think Edward would have regreted his influence on Bella that resulted in her joining him as an immortal.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby maybeshescrazy » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:15 pm

Esme echo wrote:Bella may have remained oblivious -- in which case I don't think Edward would have regreted his influence on Bella that resulted in her joining him as an immortal.

I can more easily believe that Bella would remain oblivious. I know she's supposed to be far more mature than her age, but after she's changed (obviously ignoring the stress of the Volturi) I always see her as a little immature - in a good, teenagery way of course. Probably just because of how she's so happy that she gets to be completely and forever with Edward, and it's great being a vampire etc... and I don't see that ever changing, even with BD as is and Renesmee being around. Tbh, the rest of the Cullens/Jacob love her so much it takes a lot of the pressure and responsibility off being a mum.
However, imagining Renesmee's not around and Bella is oblivious, I think there would always be something niggling at the back of Edward's head, no matter how many times Bella told him she was blissfully happy, and tried to get him to shut up! Whereas Bella would have that "deal with it" attitude, Edward's more prone to feeling guilty for a long time. I think it's also got something to do with being so mature too - when he was changed at the turn of the century, like he said, he was ready to get married (and therefore basically start a family asap). He's the more fatherly type, and of course he would want everything absolutely perfect for Bella. It would be hard for anyone to lose those "proper" things he was taught when he was growing up, even after 100 years - as was demonstrated with the proposal etc. I don't think he would ever be 100% happy about it.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:18 pm

Esme echo wrote: In my mind, Bella being happy as a vampire was the total key to Edward's satisfaction as a vampire. Bella was not as good at being human as she was at being a vampire. As Aro commented to her, "It is as if you were designed for this life." Renesmee was definitely a wonderful addition to their family, but if Bella had never conceived her, Edward would still have been happy as long as Bella was happy. .

Bella was an excellent vampire. And I think she really loved it. Not being all clumsy all the time. And Edward saw that it didn't change who she was on the inside. She was still his Bella, only not so breakable :)

Esme echo wrote: But would he have had lingering regrets that Bella never had the chance to have a baby? Would Bella, over the years, mature enough to realize that nurturing children is an important aspect of being feminine? Those are the questions I don't really have an answer to. Bella may have remained oblivious -- in which case I don't think Edward would have regreted his influence on Bella that resulted in her joining him as an immortal.

These are difficult questions. Mostly because they are so based on the individual person. I myself decided when I was in my teens that I was not going to have children, and I have stuck by that decision and not had any regrets about it since it has always felt right for me. So I think if Bella had made a clear and conscious decision, I don't think Edward would have regretted it so much that they didn't have children. But of course, she wasn't really ready to make that decision at 18, since familiy life at that point is not usually your first priority.
I don't think Bella would have ever let Edward know if she was missing a child. She wouldn't want him to believe that he had taken something from her. But I do think that Edward being the intelligent man that he is, would have found himself worrying about it at some point in their life together, and wondering if he did the right thing by taking away her humanity.
But I also think that Bella's love for Edward ultimately would have been enough for her. I don't see her ending up all miserable like Rosalie over that fact that she couldn't have children, since Bella actually chose to become a vampire.
maybeshescrazy : I agree with everything you said!
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ariadnee » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:33 pm

I'm not disagreeing with the forum wisdom that Edward and Bella reached a very happy ending at the end of Breaking Dawn. Do they harbor regrets about the way things turned out? No, I don't think they do. Even Edward, and he's prone to being hard on himself.

However, I do think that they would have been happier had they been able to be together forever as humans. Existence as a vegetarian vampire has its advantages, but the simple fact that all of the Cullens would rather be human is a compelling argument to me. Bella's motivations for becoming a vampire were not the super strength, speed, and senses. She wanted to be able to be with Edward, and she simply didn't believe it was possible with her as a human (until perhaps, it was too late). She was always too insecure about her ability to hold his attention as a human, and worried about her advancing age. None of us believe that Edward's love was that changeable. She was also worried about being too tasty and vulnerable, but we all know that Edward would have protected her. Ultimately, she wasn't turned because she wanted to be turned, but because she would have died a young, horrible, and unnecessary death otherwise, and it was the only way to save her from that fate.

Had it been possible for Edward to become human for her, well, that would have been a great ending for both of them, a better ending. It's too bad that in the Twilight Universe, it appears to be impossible.

Thanks for listening - Ariadnee
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I've written an Edward POV fanfic for New Moon: http://login.fanfiction.net/story/story ... &chapter=1
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