Edward Cullen #4

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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:07 pm

Amethyst/malaz (now I can satisfy both! 8-) ) I do consider melodrama to be a character trait of his. He displays it time and time again. I suppose, if you wanted to be diplomatic, you could say he was a reactionary, or he's extreme. But to me, it reads as melodrama.

Kachiti, I appreciate your understanding, but I think you may have actually misunderstood. I don't think Edward defines a man, but that's because I don't think any one person defines a man. Edward may be the definition of manliness for you. He's not for me. I know that there are certain qualities that define a man to me, and Edward fits some and does not fit others.

My definition of a man is more traditional.

I don't think, though, that this discussion was ever about manliness. It was about masculinity, which is totally different.

Also, to go by just his definition - hunter, predator, provider. Ok. Well then by that same token, take the definition of any soldier, or police officer. They are protectors and hunters and fighters. But say he goes home and drinks himself silly every night, then abuses his wife and kids. Is he a man? By his paper definition, yes. But by his actions, no.

Jazz Girl, I think you are getting awful upset about that article. And I understand, were it an article about Jacob, I would be just as upset. I just wanted to make sure that you understand that just because I am not saying that Edward is the manliest man ever doesn't mean I agree with the people who wrote that.

Kachiti, your last line about Romeo made my day.

I really really think the key here is to remember that there is no one "ideal man"
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby ringswraith » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:52 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Also, to go by just his definition - hunter, predator, provider. Ok. Well then by that same token, take the definition of any soldier, or police officer. They are protectors and hunters and fighters. But say he goes home and drinks himself silly every night, then abuses his wife and kids. Is he a man? By his paper definition, yes. But by his actions, no.


First, let me say that I agree with you that there is no "ideal man" that will satisfy everyone. "Ideal" after all is subjective.

However, I'd like to point out that whether or not a person drinks to excess and abuses his wife and kids does not determine whether he is a man or not. He's still a man. Not a good man, but still a man.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:44 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Edward just doesn't have a lot of masculinity, at all. Which is OK.


Again, this is going to be a matter of opinion. Masculinity is defined as those qualities that refer to being male or as the essence of man. So, if you define the essence of being a man as being strong, protective, respectful, loving, courageous, selfless, conscientous, thoughtful, and a gentleman, than I would say that Edward is the definition of masculinity.

To you, the definition is something a little different, so Edward might be less masculine than someone else. But, to say he is not a masculine character at all is esentially agreeing with the bloggers who equated him with a thirty-something housewife. Again, it is going to be an matter of complete opinion. But, I just cannot understand how a man who is not afraid to love openly and fiercely and have no fear of the weakness that can be to him, is not every inch of a man.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Dovrebanen » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:46 am

navarre wrote: I would like to add regarding his manly, physical descriptions.
Edward, to me is a man among men. Period. He is described by Bella as chisled with a strong, masculine jawline, long torsoed, lean hipped.....*shakes head to clear it* He is very strong in appearance and his voice is rich and velvety. Like Blood for Chocolate....*keeps shaking the head to clear it* Ahem.
He is the epitome of a very fine man - the essence of man. He's Edward Cullen. ;)

navarre, your post almost made me blush just imagining him :oops: You have really captured Edward's physical attributes in those sentences... Odd enough, the physical descriptions of him was not what go my attention in the first place. I was so intrigued by this mysterious guy, who seemed to have all the worries of the world in him. Who could express so much with his eyes. And by reading "you know what book" I totally saw him for everything that he is. And for me that is all man. Who wouldn't want a man that is sensitive, intelligent, caring, loving, concerned for the well-being of his mother, and not afraid to express himself.

holdingoutforjacob wrote: Jazz Girl, I think you are getting awful upset about that article. And I understand, were it an article about Jacob, I would be just as upset. I just wanted to make sure that you understand that just because I am not saying that Edward is the manliest man ever doesn't mean I agree with the people who wrote that.

I was angry at that article not just because it attacked Edward. I found their description of a "real man" utterly ridiculous. Because in my opinion, most men aren't like that. And they have taken some lines completely out of context, and they show that they don't understand Edward or Twilight. I can't understand how someone like Edward would be compared to a 30something woman. For me he has the traits that define masculinity. But of course the ideal man doesn't exist. Everyone has their own views on that matter. And I think it's good that you stand up for what you mean here, holdingoutforjacob, because this is afterall a discussion about the the character Edward, and not a place to worship the guy. I know I tend to go a bit overboard in my descriptions of him.
Last edited by Dovrebanen on Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:50 pm

Absolutely, Dovrebanen. For me, my snarkiness over the article wasn't necessarily about the classification of Edward as more feminine (though as I said the fact that they do this because he essentially is bothered to pay attention to the feelings of others and speaks eloquently snaps my teeth together), but more that they are glorifying and celebrating today's "ideal man" as a cave troll with manners and speech patterns barely above those of Neandrethal Man!! The biggest issue I have is that it totally lets guys off the hook for some of their unbearable behavior. We know how things online work folks. Regardless of how assinine the idea is, if something is posted online in any kind of official format, it is taken as law anymore. Look at the bruhaha over the supposed lawsuit against Stephenie, or the whole Cullenism thing. Our own happy Lex world was invaded by trolls because someone said somewhere that we had created a religion to replace Christianity. Honestly!!!

But, with this, some poor unsuspecting male, in an attempt maybe to understand this "ideal male" his wife/girlfirend/partner keeps on about reads this idiotic drivel, reads that these other "real guys" equate him with a woman and completely dismisses the idea that he might actually be able to learn a little something, and instead keeps acting like a cave troll and can't understand why said wife/girlfriend/partner is still pissed at him. Does she want him to act like a woman? No. She wants him to act like a real man, rather than a jackas.s.

Yeah, I guess I do go on just a bit. My apologies for taking this so personally.
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Re: Edward Cullen #4

Postby Lunna-san » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:16 pm

amethyst wrote:
Jazz Girl (I love reading your long posts) and Lunna-san along with ringswraith excellent points!!!

Out of curiosity Lunna-san what's your mother tongue? Your english is actually amazing. I am too, fluent in another language except in my case I am not sure exactly if English is my first or second. :lol: I would say second. But oh well.


Amenthyst: Thanks for the compliments! :D And answering your question, my first language is Portuguese - I'm Brazilian. I studied 5 years in a "special school". But reading in English helps a lot. ;)

Navarre : I'm still drolling over your discription of Edward... he's simply the Sex God on Earth. 8-)

JG:: I love Edward too, dear. I really hated this article. That seemed like... I don't know, the journalist had some sort of arguiment with his girlfriend and she probably spat something like "You should be more like Edward Cullen.", so he decided writting the article. Seriously, what did he add with that? Nothing. The whole things sounded like a moody guy discounting his frustration on the article just because he doesn't get it why people keep moaning over Edward Cullen. And the sad part is, there are men who actually can feel threatened by that. I'm happy because there are guys here in thread, who actually doesn't.

Personally, Edward makes me think of some of Jane Austen's men, like Edmund and Mr. Darcy... but he also makes me think of Angel, from Buffy. And on the outside... I imagine him as a very attractive man. Nothing feminine at all. The type of the guy who you see at the street and blush. When a guy is feminine, you notice that by the way he walks and if he actually was, as rings, said, Jacob wouldn't hesitate on pointing that out. He's not in touch with his "feminine side". He lived through an amount of years, reading people's thoughts. I think you can learn a lot with that.
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