Edward Cullen #5

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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Kachiti » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:38 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Again, this is what is offending me. You seem to think that because I don't think Edward is the manliest man ever, or I don't find him to be very masculine, I don't understand what it is to be a gentleman, or that I think it's a bad thing. And to make it an issue of where I come from seems silly.

If a boy opens a door for me I think it is very nice and sweet. But if I have to open a door every now and again, fine. I'll take it over someone dismantling my truck when they've decided I'm not within their limits for me. I think it is more important that a boy be kind and treat me as an equal in our relationship than be a "gentleman" as you call it. I think it is more important to be kind and to have fun than to make sure someone pulls my chair out for me. I define being a man as being honorable, kind, confident, and imperfect.

If you all must know why I find Edward to be rather feminine at times, it's not his actions, it's his speech. No actual boy talks like that, nor would I want them to. I would rather have a simple "I love you" that was really heartfelt than the entire page it takes Edward to say essentially the same thing.

What makes someone a man or manly or masculine is different for anyone and NO ONE'S decision of that is wrong - understood AnnetteandEdward and Jazz Girl???


HOFJ, Your right no boy talks like in our time and age but haven't we just spent several pages discussing the reason why Edward talks the way he does. Have you forgotten that he was born in 1901 and a lot of his mannerism are from that time period. Does Edward not say through out Twilight that boys' behavior (thoughts) around Bella are subpar. I'm really paraphasing here because I don't have my book with me.

And for crying out loud, the truck thing again. Most of us agree that Edward messed up but he learned from his mistake when it came to the best way to protect Bella. He learns, he apologizes and makes better the best he know how. That in my book is good example how a gentleman should act.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:57 am

You completely missed the entire point of my post.

I wasn't opening the door for any debate over Edward's character or actions. I was simply stating to AnnetteandEdward that I KNOW what it means to be a gentleman, and that I don't find chivalry to be a bad thing, but I also don't think it's the most important thing in the world and I stated why. Is there a problem there??

I don't know how you got the impression that I didn't understand WHY Edward speaks the way he does. I was simply stating that it's not for me. And, if you bother to read back a while, I WAS the one who said that maybe Edward's speech and affect come off feminine at times because he is written by a woman. He was also raised in the early 1900s.

Because you didn't take the time to figure out the point I was making, you took my post as an attack on Edward, saying that what he was was bad. That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that he isn't the ONLY good thing, his way isn't the ONLY way.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Kachiti » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:20 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:You completely missed the entire point of my post.

I wasn't opening the door for any debate over Edward's character or actions. I was simply stating to AnnetteandEdward that I KNOW what it means to be a gentleman, and that I don't find chivalry to be a bad thing, but I also don't think it's the most important thing in the world and I stated why. Is there a problem there??

I don't know how you got the impression that I didn't understand WHY Edward speaks the way he does. I was simply stating that it's not for me. And, if you bother to read back a while, I WAS the one who said that maybe Edward's speech and affect come off feminine at times because he is written by a woman. He was also raised in the early 1900s.

Because you didn't take the time to figure out the point I was making, you took my post as an attack on Edward, saying that what he was was bad. That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that he isn't the ONLY good thing, his way isn't the ONLY way.


Did you not say and I quote "it's not his actions, it's his speech. No actual boy talks like that, nor would I want them to. I would rather have a simple "I love you" that was really heartfelt than the entire page it takes Edward to say essentially the same thing. Yes, Edward speech was written by a woman but that woman had brothers. Also that woman had a whole library of other authors long gone, who by the way were men and women to draw upon. I'm not seeing this an attacked and yes I read what you wrote a few post ago. I believe his manner of speaking shows a high level of intelligence and self awareness. However, trying to dissect his manner of speaking as not being masculine enough, doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby navarre » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:55 am

This is an open post not directed at anyone's particular post, which by the way, are fantastic in their points.

My question is WHY consider how Edward talks, how he conducts himself, how he reacts as gender-centric?

His emotions, his cadences when he speaks, his deep love, devotion and protectiveness and how he desplays all of these things to Bella - his Edwardliness should not be placed in a category of masculine/feminine, but as a wonderful human quality that most of us find appealing and approachable; as Edward himself. Those are his traits, his personality, most of which were formed by the era he was born & raised in and by the examples probably lived by his parents.

Men & women want to be respected, appreciated, loved. It is not gender specific to want to be adored, to be shown courtesy.
That is a human trait - a human desire.

Why have we become a society where we seem to expect men to act like a bunch of thick-headed, brainless animals and they live up to that it seems - gladly. Why are women depicted as needy, desperate. Why do we treat each other in such a way, that women feel like they need to be the masculine ones and demand men to get in touch with their feminine sides?
Why do we, as humans, feel the need to have to prove ourselves because of our genders? Sad.

The emotions that both genders have are HUMAN. Respect each other, love each other, be kind and tender to each other, be tough with each other when the situation calls for it. Be honest with each other. Be faithful, loyal & devoted to each other.
Know when to be the one to speak and to be the one who listens. And when the above cannot exist; know when to say goodbye.

To me, Edward & Bella, in the end, displayed everything that is right in a relationship and a marriage. They were committed to each other. They respected each other and most of all deeply loved each other.
This should be HUMAN specific - not gender specific.

I'm living in La-La land - I know.

Man, I sure to do bounce all over the place which is why I rarely get into these types of conversations. My brain and keyboard never line up. *laughs*

Anyway, I hope you get my point. This is just how I see things. Everyone has their view of this & this is my view. /shrugs.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:35 am

navarre wrote:This is an open post not directed at anyone's particular post, which by the way, are fantastic in their points.

My question is WHY consider how Edward talks, how he conducts himself, how he reacts as gender-centric?

His emotions, his cadences when he speaks, his deep love, devotion and protectiveness and how he desplays all of these things to Bella - his Edwardliness should not be placed in a category of masculine/feminine, but as a wonderful human quality that most of us find appealing and approachable; as Edward himself. Those are his traits, his personality, most of which were formed by the era he was born & raised in and by the examples probably lived by his parents.

Men & women want to be respected, appreciated, loved. It is not gender specific to want to be adored, to be shown courtesy.
That is a human trait - a human desire.

Why have we become a society where we seem to expect men to act like a bunch of thick-headed, brainless animals and they live up to that it seems - gladly. Why are women depicted as needy, desperate. Why do we treat each other in such a way, that women feel like they need to be the masculine ones and demand men to get in touch with their feminine sides?
Why do we, as humans, feel the need to have to prove ourselves because of our genders? Sad.

The emotions that both genders have are HUMAN. Respect each other, love each other, be kind and tender to each other, be tough with each other when the situation calls for it. Be honest with each other. Be faithful, loyal & devoted to each other.
Know when to be the one to speak and to be the one who listens. And when the above cannot exist; know when to say goodbye.

To me, Edward & Bella, in the end, displayed everything that is right in a relationship and a marriage. They were committed to each other. They respected each other and most of all deeply loved each other.
This should be HUMAN specific - not gender specific.

I'm living in La-La land - I know.

Man, I sure to do bounce all over the place which is why I rarely get into these types of conversations. My brain and keyboard never line up. *laughs*

Anyway, I hope you get my point. This is just how I see things. Everyone has their view of this & this is my view. /shrugs.


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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:41 am

New question:

Who do you think Edward is closest to in his family(besides his wife)?
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:09 am

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:

Who do you think Edward is closest to in his family(besides his wife)?


Oh Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3~ how I do love your questions!!!

Again, I have to compare Edward to Carlisle here. Just as Carlisle has a very different relationship with each of his children, Edward's relationships with his family are hard to characterize. Alice is clearly his favorite sibling. They have a very deep connection. A part of it stems from the connection having additional gifts gives them. As Edward says in DHN, " We had to stick together, Alice & I. It wasn't easy, hearing voices or seeing visions of the future. Both freaks among those who were already freaks. We protected each other's secrets." But, I think there is so much more there. The biggest factor I think is how Alice's happy nature balances his darker side. They kind of keep each other in check, so to speak.

As for Rosalie, I have never made a secret of the fact that I don't think he likes her much. But, there is an understanding there. He understands her hatred for the life she has now. And, I think he admires her just a bit for making out of the life what she has, coming to accept it the way she has. Her diva attitude and condescension, especially toward Bella irritate the crap out of him. But, they are family and he loves her because of that.

Em and Jazz are a little different. I think he values them both equally, but for very different reasons. Again, there is a connection between Edward and Jasper due to their unique gifts, and I think also through Alice. Jasper completes Alice and Edward respects and loves him for that. Emmett is the complete opposite of Edward, and just as he love Alice for balancing him out, so too does he love Emmett for his "whatever happens happens" attitude. He loves the fun-loving nature of Emmett, especially when he needs a bit of distraction.

In regards to Carlisle and Esme, Edward truly loves and respects his parents. I think he is very close to both of them. He revels in the mother's love and support that Esme always gives all of her children, also appreciating so much that Esme takes Bella into her heart so completely. Where Carlisle is concerned, he is constantly amazed and a little envious of his compassion and self control. Also, I think Carlisle unending patience and acceptance endear him to Edward.

In the end, he loves his entire family fiercely, though for many very different reasons. But, if I had to pick just one as whom he is closest to, I think it would have to be Alice.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:10 am

Kachiti wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:You completely missed the entire point of my post.

I wasn't opening the door for any debate over Edward's character or actions. I was simply stating to AnnetteandEdward that I KNOW what it means to be a gentleman, and that I don't find chivalry to be a bad thing, but I also don't think it's the most important thing in the world and I stated why. Is there a problem there??

I don't know how you got the impression that I didn't understand WHY Edward speaks the way he does. I was simply stating that it's not for me. And, if you bother to read back a while, I WAS the one who said that maybe Edward's speech and affect come off feminine at times because he is written by a woman. He was also raised in the early 1900s.

Because you didn't take the time to figure out the point I was making, you took my post as an attack on Edward, saying that what he was was bad. That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that he isn't the ONLY good thing, his way isn't the ONLY way.


Did you not say and I quote "it's not his actions, it's his speech. No actual boy talks like that, nor would I want them to. I would rather have a simple "I love you" that was really heartfelt than the entire page it takes Edward to say essentially the same thing. Yes, Edward speech was written by a woman but that woman had brothers. Also that woman had a whole library of other authors long gone, who by the way were men and women to draw upon. I'm not seeing this an attacked and yes I read what you wrote a few post ago. I believe his manner of speaking shows a high level of intelligence and self awareness. However, trying to dissect his manner of speaking as not being masculine enough, doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not trying to dissect anything at all. I was simply stating that, while I understand why Edward speaks the way he does, I also understand how it can come off. And really, who are you to dictate whether or not my impression of that is right, wrong, or silly?

I have never classified his actions OR speech as "girly" or "feminine" until now. My only point was that I could understand WHY he came off that way.

You never did address the fact that you've entirely misunderstood the purpose of my post.

navarre - that was beautiful. consider me standing next to Jazz Girl applauding!
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Dovrebanen » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:23 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:
navarre - that was beautiful. consider me standing next to Jazz Girl applauding!

Me too. navarre - your post was one of the best I have read here on the Lex! Totally blew me away. Thanks for sharing that with us.
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Re: Edward Cullen #5

Postby Kachiti » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:37 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:

I'm not trying to dissect anything at all. I was simply stating that, while I understand why Edward speaks the way he does, I also understand how it can come off. And really, who are you to dictate whether or not my impression of that is right, wrong, or silly?

I have never classified his actions OR speech as "girly" or "feminine" until now. My only point was that I could understand WHY he came off that way.

You never did address the fact that you've entirely misunderstood the purpose of my post.



I'm on my way to church but let me first say.
HOFJ,

No I didn't miss understand your post or posts. You stated that you felt Edward's speech was on the feminine side. No where in that post did you state that you understood why. And NO WHERE in any of my responses did I say that your impression was wrong or silly. I simply stated that I did not understand your reasoning.

And as usual, Navarre you have the wisdom in words that I so sadly lack.
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