Edward and Bella #1

Re: Edward and Bella

Postby diane771 » Fri May 15, 2009 11:12 am

Dovrebanen
You are so right on these xomments we do see Edward in the way that he was and not some horrible monster (that should get them going)
First Dark Knight, I want to comment on the fact that you say that Edward was a bad guy and that leaving Bella was high crime. I couldn't disagree more. He was a vampire. It was in his nature to kill people. And still he resisted. He had a rebellious period, but who doesn't? I think what he did was admireable.
And as for him leaving Bella...That can't be called a crime. He left her out of love. And you can't blame him for what happened when he was away. He couldn't know that Bella would be in the meadow alone and that Laurent would be there as well. he couldn't know that Vic would come back. He could only see bad things happening if he stayed. So going by that logic, he had to leave. This is like saying, if my boyfriend left me tomorrow and I got hit by a car on my way to work because he didn't drive me, than it would be his fault. Break ups happen, and people don't see the consequences of that. They have to leave it to fate.

I can't see how people are dwelling on his leaving so much, I think it was a well thought out process maybe not the popular one but, the correct one. He in every way possible wanted Bella to live and that meant he had to leave he would. You can't please everyone. If he stayed they would have said he should have gone.
As far as changing Bella, Edward was more than willing to be with her till she died a normal human death.
It was Bella who chose to become a vampire against what Edward wanted.
Again, Edward wanted to marry Bella. he wanted her to go to callege. He wanted to make sure
that she would not regret her decision on becoming a vampire. That was a sign of love.
If Edward wqs as selfish as some of you are saying he would have turned her\ and would have cared less if she was 100 percent sure of what she wanted.
TwilightxSagaxLover,
we do see Edward and Bella in the same way. I really find it hard to see how others down play what Edward is really about, and that is his love for Bella, Nothing matters to him more, yet some people will read the saga
and see things a different way, Even in MS Edward's feelings for Bella were something that
he never experienced before, yet he is controlling, manipulative and selfish in other peoples eyes.
Since the story is about Edward and Bella's love. I do have a hard time grasping at why
they are so resistant to Edward and his feelings and actions with Bella.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri May 15, 2009 2:12 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:Hummm, it would appear you have never been in a military combat briefing room. Where the psychology of mankind is more than just academic but rather life and death. I assure you the ultimate form of control of a situation has always been the ability to destroy XYZ . The courses I took had a very particular point of view on psychology as you might well understand. History is replete with these events like Gettysburg, Stalingrad and Waterloo. It may seem extreme to you but it is how things are. Check out “Dangerous Liaisons” if you would like to see it played out in a relationship setting.


The Dark Knight~ No, I am not military. My psychological background is from a different vein, and I would argue that that is a highly extreme version of control to take, particularly to apply to romantic relationships, and fictional ones at that. In a military context, yes that definition makes complete sense, and applying that definition, evaluating things from that standpoint can be the difference between victory and defeat, life and death. But, taking that definition and applying beyond that context seems to me to be inappropriate. The psychologies involved in warfare and in relationships may be based in the same academic base, but are very very very different things.

I will also completely disagree with your interpretations of Fire & Ice. You state repeatedly that Edward's motivations and comments are questionable because he knows he is engaged to Bella, has already won her. I cannot agree with that. Yes, Edward is engaged to Bella. But, a part of Edward believes that Jacob is better, more natural choice for Bella. She has repeatedly chosen him. But, just as Bella fears that Edward might choose to leave again to keep her safe, Edward fears that Bella will recognize that Jacob is the better choice for her, the more natural choice. A part of him wants her to choose Jacob, but he also fears it. The engagement doesn't alleve that fear. So to say that Edward's comments are manipulative because he knows he has won Bella makes no sense to me. For Edward, I think his fear is alleviated by the wedding. That is the event he sees as cementing their committment. For Bella, that doesn't happen until she is transformed. That is her moment of committment. Neither have reached that moment at the point of Fire & Ice
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby Dovrebanen » Fri May 15, 2009 2:30 pm

JG, agreed 100 %. Well said :)
diane771 wrote:Dovrebanen
You are so right on these xomments we do see Edward in the way that he was and not some horrible monster (that should get them going)

I can't see how people are dwelling on his leaving so much, I think it was a well thought out process maybe not the popular one but, the correct one. He in every way possible wanted Bella to live and that meant he had to leave he would. You can't please everyone. If he stayed they would have said he should have gone.
As far as changing Bella, Edward was more than willing to be with her till she died a normal human death.
It was Bella who chose to become a vampire against what Edward wanted.
Again, Edward wanted to marry Bella. he wanted her to go to callege. He wanted to make sure
that she would not regret her decision on becoming a vampire. That was a sign of love.
If Edward wqs as selfish as some of you are saying he would have turned her\ and would have cared less if she was 100 percent sure of what she wanted.

When Edward left I didn't blame him. Did I cry? Yes...Did I want him not to do it? Yes...I felt his pain when I read ch 3 even if it was in Bella's POV. I could so clearly imagine what was going on inside his head. And with the dangers he saw himself bringing into Bella's life from day one, he just couldn't live with himself if he stayed and something happened to her. It all started with himself being the first threat to her life. He came so close to killing her. And then it was James, and Edward almost lost Bella. And he saw that as all his fault. And when his own brother attacked, that really made his decision for him. And he felt wrong for ever allowing himself to get involved in her life, when he was such a threat to it. He couldn't see that he was actually the one saving her life over and over again. He saved her from the van, from the guys in Port Angeles, from James and from Jasper. But he saw it as just making up for the dangers that he brought upon her. So with this type of thinking, he had to leave because he loved her. Edward chose to be selfless, and give her a chance to have a normal life. And he probably downplayed the depth of Bella's feeling for him, and the happiness he brought to her life. I wish he would have seen how happy he made her, but going with his ideas of himself, leaving was the only decision that was right for him at the time.

I agree with you diane, that if Edward was selfish he would have changed Bella to moment he had the chance. He had the chance in Twilight, to just let the venom spread. He could have done it at prom. He could have done it after Jasper attacked. But he didn't. Because he didn't want that for her. She was ready (or supposedly) and would have gone along with it. And she never would have blamed him for turning her. But still he didn't do it. He said that for him it would be easier if she was like him (less breakable), but not in a million years would he do that to please himself. So in my opinion, selflessness is one of the most defining character traits in Edward.
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Re: Edward and Bella

Postby December » Sun May 17, 2009 11:50 am

Heh. This thread is overdue for a new incarnation!
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