Jacob and Nessie

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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby akire » Thu May 21, 2009 11:08 pm

^^ I agree that the Jake/Bella relationship was NOT because of Ness; didn't mean to imply that my opinion was otherwise.

I just wanted to say that their relationship was different while Bella was pregnant.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby mary » Wed May 27, 2009 2:50 pm

That's exactly what I'm saying. Bella and Jacob did love each other, but Bella's pregnancy w/ Nessie intinsified Jacob's feelings for Bella because he was imprinted w/ Nessie. I'm not saying that's the only reason they loved each other, I'm saying that it intinsified it.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby Lunna-san » Wed May 27, 2009 3:20 pm

akire wrote:^^ I agree that the Jake/Bella relationship was NOT because of Ness; didn't mean to imply that my opinion was otherwise.

I just wanted to say that their relationship was different while Bella was pregnant.


Yeah, during the pregnancy, I think it was Renesmee there. Because Bella didn't even sounded like herself. I don't think this changes what happened between Jacob and Bella. They had their story. But they were both destined to be with other person. This is not unusual. Sometimes, love it's just not enough. Bella's love for Jacob wasn't enough to make her leave Edward. And Jacob, let's be honest, could imprint on someone else and leave Bella. I'm not a Jacob's fan, but I think he deserves more than a girl who would never be able to totally forget another guy.

I agree that Jacob's change of love interest was kind of sudden (to say the very least), but it's a fantastical story, so the circunstances are special.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby andrea0908 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:39 am

Knives wrote:
andrea0908 wrote:With Jacob and Nessie or Quil and Claire, it's the wishes of the author. Maybe she has reasons, let her explore more and create more possibilities, let her works mature through her characters. She is yet a newborn in the literary world. And being compared to veterans. Wow! it is something! In my personal point of view, intentionally a writer creates blind spots and loop holes to make her readers interested, dissatisfied and crave for more. A strategy to create more angles for possible stories, and a strategy to stir the emotions of her readers. That makes him/her a good writer.


Emphasis mine (I like doing that ^_^)

I can, with actual authority, say that this statement is wrong. Ms. Meyer has a college degree in American Literature, which means she has read and analyzed some of the greatest authors this nation has to offer, which also includes a few of the greatest authors of all time. She knows - she cannot fail to know - what constitutes good writing, and she's still chosen to engage in shoddy writing full of Deus Ex Machinas, plot holes, and barely-concealed Mary Sues. Objectively speaking - in terms of grammar structure, internal world consistency, character development - Stephenie is not a good writer, but rather a very bad one. What she is is a popular writer who knows how to tug on her audience's emotions by plying her traded in wish fulfillment and supernatural fantasies.


Are the books of the saga aren't her first literary works? If not, can you name the first one she had made after she gained the what you called her "college degree"?. Aren't you a newborn once you graduated college, applied what you have learned and had earned for many years in school? After college graduation, you were just transformed from being innocent into someone who had just at least equipped with new knowledge and ideas. Yet, still not enough to dwell,mingle and be compared with those people who have gained more of these knowlege and wisdom through their years of experience. With someone in his profession, he could only be called "expert" after years of practicing and applying it and or after years of continuous learning. I strongly disagree of you judging her as not a good writer. I can mention few authors who were inspired by her works. Alyson Noel is one of them, very proud of saying, her works now are inspired by SM twilight saga.Try to read her newly released book 'evermore'. It will fascinate you too. If you don't like SM writings, then why did you finished reading everything from twilight to BD. You should have dump it somewher because you just feel of not liking it, why bother to read it all when at the end it only irritates you. You are a good critic actually. Your words can challenge new aspiring authors. Her, as newly introduced author of the literary world give her much credit, give her time to mature.. Don't just put an end to her work. The literary universe is so vast my dear friend, there are many things to explore out there. The unique love story she has made is something that twists the common love stories we've usually read. That makes it so interesting. And remember, she's not alone of putting her ideas into writing, she has the staff and the publishing company to review her works, so don't put all the negativisms on her. She was surrounded by these people too. If they sense and only think it's a bad stuff then why continue. Did you get what I'm trying to say?
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby mary » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:55 pm

As far as I'm concerned, SM is a good writer. Very few writers can make me addicted to books like she did (I mean I read all 4 books in a wk, the fastest I've ever read any books in my life and I read a lot), and no other writer has ever made me so obsessed as I am w/ Twilight. Now if that doesn't say anything about how good a writer she is, then I don't know what will.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby Sannois » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:37 pm

I have to totally agree with Mary in the post above mine. SM Is one great writer with an incredible imagination.
I too have never been so obsessed with a series of books, and have read tons.
I have to say Renesme Creeped me out at first, the whole Pregnancy thing, Drinking blood, Breaking her bones.. I almost did not finish the book. But a fellow fan convinced me to continue. I really leared to love JAcob from this book. MAde me wish she had picked him.
But thats another thread. I must confess, BEfore I even read the part, I KNEW He would imprint on her. I was not grossed out by that, I found it sweet. I will say the whole tome of that book had a different effect on me. So as not to get too long winded.
I won't elaborate.
THe last thing I thought was WOW there can be more books, With Nessie and JAcob. I secretly was really sad when I read those two words at the end of BD. But Hope springs eternal. And I think SM knows what her fans love. :D
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby funkidiva » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:38 am

Wow, ive just read Promised last night in BD and wow. I didnt see that one coming with Jacob and Nessie! At the end of Jacob's section I did have an inkling then what had happened hence he went from going to kill the baby to suddenly stopping and his world changing but I loved how it all came out in this chapter, and Bella's reaction. Cant wait to see how this one progresses and what happens in the next chapter.

Poor Jacob though - he hasnt got a choice in the matter and its with a half human, half vampire - not gonna please Sam and some of the others! But what can Jacob do about it - nothing.

Just when you thought everything was complicated enough haha.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby mary » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:42 pm

Sannois wrote:I have to totally agree with Mary in the post above mine. SM Is one great writer with an incredible imagination.
I too have never been so obsessed with a series of books, and have read tons.
I have to say Renesme Creeped me out at first, the whole Pregnancy thing, Drinking blood, Breaking her bones.. I almost did not finish the book. But a fellow fan convinced me to continue. I really leared to love JAcob from this book. MAde me wish she had picked him.
But thats another thread. I must confess, BEfore I even read the part, I KNEW He would imprint on her. I was not grossed out by that, I found it sweet. I will say the whole tome of that book had a different effect on me. So as not to get too long winded.
I won't elaborate.
THe last thing I thought was WOW there can be more books, With Nessie and JAcob. I secretly was really sad when I read those two words at the end of BD. But Hope springs eternal. And I think SM knows what her fans love. :D


Yeah, I have to agree. While Bella was pregnant, the whole thing did freak me out...her having to drink blood and getting her bones broke. But after Nessie was born and Jacob imprinted on her, I was happy. I didn't really think it was weird, I was kinda halfway expecting it anyways. But the bottom line is, Nessie is one loved kid. I mean she has Bella, Edward, the whole Cullen family, Charlie, perhaps Renee (if Renee had eventually found out), and then Jacob. And, she's definitely well protected, too.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby elisemusta » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:28 pm

This maybe sounds a bit weird but the only one thing which does not bother me in Jacob imprinting on Nessie is that she is a baby. Everything else bothers me. And badly. :x

First, Nessie is half a vampire. They are supposed to be enemies, even genetically. Vampires causes shapeshifter's changing. Wolves are meant to protect their tribe from vampires. Not having relationships with them. And if part of the meaning of imprinting is passing the wolf gene, how it could survive with vampire's genes. I really wonder how SM is going to explain herself out from the problem.

Second, Jacob is sort of the quileutes' prince. He is supposed to become a chief for the tribe elders. And now he will be drawn away from his tribe, the place where he belongs, where he should have his future. He was born to be the leader of the tribe, but now he no longer cares what happens to his people, but is concentrating only to protect that little amazing creature which actually wouldn't need Jacob's protecting because she has a large coven of vampires to do that.

Jacob has been growing so much during the story. He is the real hero of the saga. He was going towards the place as the true alpha. He was beginning to take good care of his pack and accepting the thruth that he was the true alpha as Ephraims heir. And now suddenly he loses all of his independence and even his personality and becomes just a protector for a little girl. I really think that Jacob deserves to have his own life, his own destiny where he was born and was growing. I feel it so wrong for him to be forced to throw all that away as it doesn't mean anything to him or the tribe.

As many of you have said I feel too that Jacob imprinting on Nessie was just the easy way out. And that is a thing which bothers me during the whole saga. Nobody who has suffered from broken heart is able to heal from it in natural way. Bella couldn't, she had to get Edward back. Jacob didn't get a change, he imprinted. Leah maybe could have a possibility if the story continued, but now we don't know what happens to her. This far she has been described a bitter harp and gets even sort of androgyne status. (Don't get me wrong I love and appreciate Leah, she is a really interesting character.)

I agree with HofJ there that now when Jacob became one of the main characters during New Moon and Eclipse it doesn't work anymore to put him together with Nessie. Imo SM should have backed off from her earlier storyline and write for Jacob another ending which he deserves.
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Re: Jacob and Nessie

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:41 pm

I agree with everything you said, elisemusta.

The imprinting-on-babies thing doesn't bother me so much because of the way imprinting is supposed to work.

It just feels like a complete cop out. SM has never been very good at writing about an inner journey, there's not a single character who overcomes an obstacle just by dealing with it in and of themselves, there's always some catalyst that just changes everything - i.e. Edward coming back, Bella's transformation, Jacob's imprinting, Leah leaving Sam's pack. If she was so determined that he'd imprint on Nessie, okay fine, but at least let him work through some of his issues on his own, without some mystical imprinting thing to take away his anger.

And see, it's almost protecting princess Bella again. Since Jacob's anger and pain and hurt are magically gone, Bella doesn't ever have to answer to any of her part in that. Neither does Edward, but I think that actually, he and Jacob caused each other very little pain and I think Edward would be very quick to own up to anything he'd done to hurt anyone. Anyway the point is that Bella doesn't ever have to face her actions or feel guilty. Again.
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