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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 1:00 am

That's what I was trying to say too. and to make it worse it was a relative of Leahs.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby vampirenerd » Wed May 27, 2009 10:00 am

I also think it wouldn't have been as hard on him if Leah hadn't turned into a werewolf. I know it's a selfish way of thinking but he probably would have gotten over it and been more concerned with being happy with Emily if he didn't have to constantly hear what Leah was thinking about. B/c I'm pretty sure 99% of what she thinks about while she's a wolf is what happened between them b/c she's still angry about it.

amethyst wrote:Also, why does Jacob stare at Renesmee like a "person staring at the sun for the first time" . . . It creeps me out, because I attribute this analogy to romantic relationships . . . Thanks for who ever offers their opinion ;)


I've wondered that as well. I think it's probably normal for the wolves to be enthralled by their imprintees. Just the ability to find someone (whether or not they are at the romantic stage yet) that you just know you're going to be with is a little awe inspring. But whether or not it's a normal wolf/imprintee thing or not you have to remember Jacob just imprinted on a half human/half vamp who is the most amazing thing ever (or so everyone makes her out to be). I'm sure he's pretty amazed by her too.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed May 27, 2009 10:15 am

I know I am in the minority here. But there was never anything creepy or wrong to me about Jacob's imprinting on Ness, in the strictest sense of him imprinting on a newborn. I had a few issues about him imprinting on his best friend and sworn enemies daughter. But, I was really able to separate the whole idea of imprinting and a romantic relationship. To me, the imprinting was a by product of the wolf nature, a part of the dynamic and the magic. The romantic relationship would develop later as a byproduct of it. I look at Embry & Kim and Quil & Claire in two very different ways.

Clearly, Embry & Kim are in that hormone-driven, completely obsessive love phase. Their relationship is becoming the romantic one it has to be for the imprinting to serve it's purpose, the survival and strength of the wolves. But, Quil & Claire are nowhere near that, not only not on that page, but not even in that book yet. Right now, Quil is the most dedicated and loving big brother a kid could have. Those are his feelings. Yes, he can't see any other possibilities in the dating field, but that sort of makes sense. His nature would never allow him to take an interest in a woman while his imprintee is young because it could/would threaten the relationship in the future. It actually made sense for me that, if the wolf encountered his imprintee at a young age, he would still imprint. Who better to protect and guard that person until they are old enough for the romantic relationship to develop than a preternatural being strong enough to keep away any and all dangers and who is completely dedicated to nothing other than that person's happiness and safety? It just completely made sense to me from that angle.

It does raise the question about what would happen, say, if a wolf imprinted on a younger child who wasn't a member of the tribe or familiar with their legends? Not a likely possibility, but not impossible. So, how does the wolf and/or the pack deal with it when say some random parents from Forks try to deal with the fact that they now have a 6'6" massive as a mountain young man camped on their front porch all the time waiting for their daughter to be old enough to love him?
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Dovrebanen » Wed May 27, 2009 11:45 am

I agree with what you said about imprinting, JG. I don't find it creepy at all. In my opinion, there is nothing even remotely romantic about Jacob imprinting on Nessie (or Quil on Claire). The wolf/guy will do whatever it takes to protect and care for his imprintee all her life. That's what he's there for, and that's what he'll always do for her. And one day, they will fall in love because they will be perfect for each other.
Having that said, I didn't like Jacob imprinting on Nessie. Pure and simple because I didn't want him to. It has nothing to do with her being just a baby. It has to do with the fact that she's Bella's daughter. And Jacob never had any real closure with Bella. He just came down the stairs, and suddenly he could see nothing else than Nessie Everything else forgotten.

Jazz Girl wrote:It does raise the question about what would happen, say, if a wolf imprinted on a younger child who wasn't a member of the tribe or familiar with their legends? Not a likely possibility, but not impossible. So, how does the wolf and/or the pack deal with it when say some random parents from Forks try to deal with the fact that they now have a 6'6" massive as a mountain young man camped on their front porch all the time waiting for their daughter to be old enough to love him?

I was thinking about that when Jacob was searching this random park for the girl that he might imprint on. And I was thinking; What if he found her there? What would he do, how would he tell her? He couldn't just follow her home and stay there, even if that's what he would want to do. So that would definitely be a complication. Everyone on the pack imprinted on someone they already knew or was in some way connected to. I don't know if that's the way it works or if it's totally random who they imprint on.
But all this had me thinking. Jazz Girl, you say that the purpose of imprinting is to ensure the survival of the wolves. And I completely agree, that's how it's stated in the book. But with that in mind, does it really make sense that Jacob imprinted on Renesmee? She is half human, half vampire. Vampires are the one and only reason the wolves exist, and their only enemy. How can imprinting on Nessie ensure the survival of the wolves? It just seems completely contradictory to me. No one even knows if Nessie can even carry children. My guess is that she can't since she's half vampire. So how does that secure the wolves' future? Extremely confusing now that I come to think about it....
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby ringswraith » Wed May 27, 2009 11:55 am

Ah, but Renesmee is also half-human. Her heart beats (faster than normal), she pumps blood through her body, and (at the moment) she is growing- which illustrates to me that her body is capable of change. By extension, I believe that one day she will be able to bear child.

Which leads into the next question- what kind of kids would they have? (A topic for another thread, I believe.)
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Dovrebanen » Wed May 27, 2009 12:07 pm

It might for another topic, but I'll give it a try here anyway :D
Yes, her body will change. But only up to a certain point. And then she'll stop aging, right? I interpret that as her body not changing anymore. So I think that she might have to have those children before her body stops changing. And that would be too early, I think.
But even if Jacob and Nessie could have children...How would that child be something that would ensure the strength and survival of the pack? What sort of genes would Nessie bring into the equation? Looking at it from that angle, it still doesn't make sense to me that Nessie should be the object of Jacob's imprinting. It doesn't make sense to imprint on someone that is half your enemy, even if she is also half human. Maybe I should just accept that I can't understand everything and move on :
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby amethyst » Wed May 27, 2009 12:23 pm

Physically, Jacob’s and Renesmee’s kids are going to be the most beautiful. I’ll bet they will be exotic looking--much like biracial kids (I think they are the most beautiful children on the planet). What with Renesmee’s pale skin and Jacob’s darker tone, and their hair colour and eyes and their features. Jacob cheekbones and Renesmee’s roundness . . . I can just picture them!

Ringswraith, I also do believe that Renesmee can reproduce--but technically, there usually is a very low chance (or non at all) for two different species to produce a fertile hybrid. Sort of like Mules, for instance--they are infertile. But considering that the premise of imprinting is to continue the bloodline, Renesmee has to bear children or else it wouldn’t make sense for Jacob to imprint upon her.

I am also assuming that their kids will be werewolves or otherwise like I mentioned there would be no point to imprinting if the offspring isn’t a werewolf. But I am quite unsure to see how [literally] two different species that are both half-half will affect their offspring’s genotype--which vampire vs. werewolf characteristics are going to be more dominant? Yeah, I think this definitely calls for the Science of the Twilight Universe thread.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby ringswraith » Wed May 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Good point about the sterile offpsring, amethyst.

There is a slight difference, though.

Assuming that Renesmee can bear children, since neither she nor Jacob will age, they can make as many kids as they dare want. :?
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 2:41 pm

But imprinting should not be cross imprinting: what I mean is you imprint on your own species and Renesmee is not anything close to Jacob so it just doesn't seem right. If that is true then Jacob could still have imprinted on Bella when she turned.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed May 27, 2009 3:05 pm

diane771 wrote:But imprinting should not be cross imprinting: what I mean is you imprint on your own species and Renesmee is not anything close to Jacob so it just doesn't seem right. If that is true then Jacob could still have imprinted on Bella when she turned.


Actually, in my opinion, if you look at it in the general sense of the fact that they are both essentially hybrids ie Ness is half human and half vampire and Jacob is half human and half werewolf, that he does technically imprint on his own species, just a different variety.

As for Dovrebanen's question about how imprinting on a half vampire provides strength and survival to the pack, I do have a thougth on that. Shocking, I know. :lol: Anyway, I will preface my comments by saying I am a believer in evolution and evolutionary theory. But, the whole human element in the mix kind of brings it up to the idea of intelligent design. The wolves and the vampires are mortal enemies, until such time as mutual goal brings them together. But, each species is essentially the only threat to the other. Werewolves are the only creatures capable and designed to kill Vampires and vice versa. But, wouldn't a hybrid, a mix, of the two be stronger than either one individually? So, if imprinting is present to ensure the continuation of the strongest bloodline, to me, it makes complete sense that the true Alpha, the one with the strongest wolf blood, would imprint on the strongest being period who is a viable option. That would ensure not only the continuation of the wolf gene, but the strongest offspring possible.

And, yes, this post might be stretching it just this side of breaking, and also proof that I think about these things WAY too much.
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