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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 3:12 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:
diane771 wrote:But imprinting should not be cross imprinting: what I mean is you imprint on your own species and Renesmee is not anything close to Jacob so it just doesn't seem right. If that is true then Jacob could still have imprinted on Bella when she turned.


Actually, in my opinion, if you look at it in the general sense of the fact that they are both essentially hybrids ie Ness is half human and half vampire and Jacob is half human and half werewolf, that he does technically imprint on his own species, just a different variety.

As for Dovrebanen's question about how imprinting on a half vampire provides strength and survival to the pack, I do have a thougth on that. Shocking, I know. :lol: Anyway, I will preface my comments by saying I am a believer in evolution and evolutionary theory. But, the whole human element in the mix kind of brings it up to the idea of intelligent design. The wolves and the vampires are mortal enemies, until such time as mutual goal brings them together. But, each species is essentially the only threat to the other. Werewolves are the only creatures capable and designed to kill Vampires and vice versa. But, wouldn't a hybrid, a mix, of the two be stronger than either one individually? So, if imprinting is present to ensure the continuation of the strongest bloodline, to me, it makes complete sense that the true Alpha, the one with the strongest wolf blood, would imprint on the strongest being period who is a viable option. That would ensure not only the continuation of the wolf gene, but the strongest offspring possible.

And, yes, this post might be stretching it just this side of breaking, and also proof that I think about these things WAY too much.


But being hybreds as you put it, their is only a slim chance of ever having a child. Because of all the genes involved rather if Renesmee went with Nahuel being just like her it would be possible for them to have childern
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 » Wed May 27, 2009 4:53 pm

Alright it's time I bring back my question-y self. But no worries. I shall always remain in the conversation, stating my opinion. :D So expect double of me.

Something new to discuss...do you think Jacob's relationship with his father reflects on how he handles situations? The past always makes an impact on people. And what do you think his relationship with his mother was like? I've always wondered about that.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 5:12 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Alright it's time I bring back my question-y self. But no worries. I shall always remain in the conversation, stating my opinion. :D So expect double of me.

Something new to discuss...do you think Jacob's relationship with his father reflects on how he handles situations? The past always makes an impact on people. And what do you think his relationship with his mother was like? I've always wondered about that.


Did he even talk about his mother? I can't remember and his father was more like an older brother than a father to me.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby amethyst » Wed May 27, 2009 5:26 pm

ringswraith wrote:
Assuming that Renesmee can bear children, since neither she nor Jacob will age, they can make as many kids as they dare want. :?

I see your point. There might be an exponential chance that of the off springs that Renesmee bears (since like you mentioned. They have limitless time), each one might have a lopsided genetic inheritance of the two species (excluding human) that are thrown in the mix. I have thought about this too, but I don’t think it is possible for the offspring to not have the werewolf gene. We know that Embry’s mom wasn’t Quileute but Embry became a werewolf because his father had had the gene. But now that I think about it, the werewolf gene is not like any other gene. It doesn’t require a match--unlike for instance eye colour. Blue and Brown. One from each parent, which ever one ends up being more dominant is what the baby, physically will have. But the werewolf gene, it doesn't result in genetic disorders or any affects the baby, like we’ve seen with Embry, it is an extra . . . dominant on its own?--so he has 23 pairs of chromosomes and one chromosome. 23 and half. I think this would apply to Renesmee and Jacob as well. In other words the rules of inheritance don’t apply to it. It will just be there-- Hopefully I am making sense.

Jazz Girl that’s an excellent thought. It could be just plausible . . . Sorry but I really do not believe in the Theory of Evolution so I don’t think I can agree much or add my lack of thoughts to yours. Just thought I should let you know, you had a great post. :D
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 5:54 pm

But going from a different species isn't the same as going from one tribe to another. Just like Edward didn't think he could have a child. Renesmee would have vampire, human and with Jacob the child would have, vampire,wolf, human, and human hybred in their DNA
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby vampirenerd » Wed May 27, 2009 7:28 pm

I'm still questioning the whole child thing. It makes sense that she would be able to have children as long as her body is still changing. Eventually though her body will stop changing and then I don't think she would be able to have children anymore. According to Nahual it took him seven years (I think, correct me if i'm wrong). So, if she were to have children she would have to do it in roughly seven years. While her body is growing faster than normal, and her mind is growing slightly faster than normal I personally don't think that she will have reached the mindset of someone old enough to have kids by then. I mean, she'll only be seven! That's what is weird to me.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Wed May 27, 2009 7:56 pm

vampirenerd wrote:I'm still questioning the whole child thing. It makes sense that she would be able to have children as long as her body is still changing. Eventually though her body will stop changing and then I don't think she would be able to have children anymore. According to Nahual it took him seven years (I think, correct me if i'm wrong). So, if she were to have children she would have to do it in roughly seven years. While her body is growing faster than normal, and her mind is growing slightly faster than normal I personally don't think that she will have reached the mindset of someone old enough to have kids by then. I mean, she'll only be seven! That's what is weird to me.


When Nahual was talking and you are right about the 7 yrs. but its not explained very well because Renesmee was growing to fast and when they saw Nahaul he looked like a young man but that was all they said and that could be a teen or twentys but its confusings if she reaches maturety at 7 is it mental or physical or both. and does it stop? Maybe she just stops growing and stays in the same body, but since they really didn't really say much about it . I don't think she would have a body of a 7 yr old but she could have the maturity, Too confusing to me right now. :lol: :lol: :lol: Now that one has issues :D
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby vampirenerd » Wed May 27, 2009 8:33 pm

No, I think that her body will be completely matured. Probably that of a late teen, early twenties. I'm pretty sure that mentally she will be older than 7 but I don't think her mind will be as old as her body. Even if her mind is maturing at twice the rate of the number of years, in 7 years while she will have a fully mature body her mind would only be that of a 14 year old. WAY too young to have children. And, if I understand correctly once she reaches full maturity her body would quit changing, therefore she wouldn't be able to have children. But that's just the way I read and understand it. I could be completely wrong lol
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed May 27, 2009 10:34 pm

vampirenerd wrote:No, I think that her body will be completely matured. Probably that of a late teen, early twenties. I'm pretty sure that mentally she will be older than 7 but I don't think her mind will be as old as her body. Even if her mind is maturing at twice the rate of the number of years, in 7 years while she will have a fully mature body her mind would only be that of a 14 year old. WAY too young to have children. And, if I understand correctly once she reaches full maturity her body would quit changing, therefore she wouldn't be able to have children. But that's just the way I read and understand it. I could be completely wrong lol


But, we know that her mind is actually maturing much faster than her body. At just a few weeks old, she is speaking in full and complete sentences, essentially the equivalent of an adolescent. She starts asking Bella to read her classic literature and poetry for her bedtime stories at just a few months old. So, her mind will actually probably reach full maturity well before her body does. So, within 7 years, she will have the physical, mental and emotional presence of a young woman in her late teens or early twenties.

diane771 wrote:But going from a different species isn't the same as going from one tribe to another. Just like Edward didn't think he could have a child. Renesmee would have vampire, human and with Jacob the child would have, vampire,wolf, human, and human hybred in their DNA


But, I think the point in here is exactly as you said. Edward didn't think he could have a child, but he did have one. And, again, given the purpose of imprinting as to specifically strengthen and continue the species, it wouldn't make sense for Jake to imprint on Ness if she couldn't have children. So, those two factors lead me to believe that Ness can in fact have children.

And, as for the fact that Ness' body will stop changing in 7 years, we just know that she'll reach physical maturity and stop aging in 7 years or so. There is never the actual discussion as to whether her body will be more vampire or human. The lack of monthly cycle and inability to accomodate the baby are purely vampiric traits. But, Ness always seemed to me to be a bit more human than vampire. She has a heartbeat, blood in her veins, is warm, and while we hear that her skin does resemble that of the vampires, we don't know that it is completely marble-like because, as Edward says, no one would dare try to test it. So, it is completely possible physiologically that she could bear a child.

In the end, I think the greatest reason for me to think it though is Jake. Jake will make a wonderful father one day. He has so much love to give, even beyond that that he will give to Ness. And, SM loves him dearly as well. I think she would give him that.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Thu May 28, 2009 3:13 pm

I definitely agree with all that. However, we're all forgetting one thing that gives great indication that Nessie will be able to bear children - Imprinting.

Jacob imprinted on her. The point of imprinting, as far as we know, is to pass on the werewolf gene, and imprinting gives you the best candidate for you to pass that on.
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